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Often, the word 'cheap' carries a negative connotation. Talking specifically about Moto G & Moto E, I'd say they are phones that are priced correctly. Before we

by enscr 12y ago

Often, the word 'cheap' carries a negative connotation. Talking specifically about Moto G & Moto E, I'd say they are phones that are priced correctly. Before we start talking about lack of features or compromises, just look at how much they charge for incremental memory. Just $20 for 8GB extra. Smartphones makers are slowly accepting commodity pricing and I hope they realize that skinning Android isn't always a value add. Cool new features like fingerprint reader sure catch the fancy of those waiting to upgrade their phone. But expecting to price the phone at more than twice what they are worth when you add an evolutionary feature may not work for too long. The difference in build quality between Android & iOS phones is way smaller than Windows & Mac laptops.

ghshephard 12y ago
"But expecting to price the phone at more than twice what they are worth " Apple has a gross margin of 39%, which is pretty good, but presuming the minimum gross margin an electronics manufacturer requires for a sustainable business is 20% - It's the difference between charging $560 for a $400 BOM vs $480. Even if you don't value Apple's Operating System, Ecosystem of Developers, content, support, quality, design - let's say that all has absolutely zero value - Apple is still charging about 16% more than what their phones are "worth." Where Apple really cleans up is in the 32/64 GB iPhones - They really take their customers to the cleaners for the extra 16/48 GB of flash ($100 and $200 respectively)
- enscr 12y ago
  They are making money from the ecosystem of developers & content separately. Why should it be counted in the price of the phone? Secondly, I didn't discount the quality/design from the phone price. Apple doesn't just overcharge for additional flash, they overcharge at every possible item in your phone. Example : $30 cables/connectors/chargers. On top of that, they sell you last years model at a premium too. Up until a few months, they were selling iPad 2 at some ridiculous price. The BOM cost goes down significantly with new rev of components coming out, be it the camera module, the previous generation app processor, the foundry charges, the low res LCD,...
  - Turing_Machine 12y ago
    "Example : $30 cables/connectors/chargers." When it comes to chargers, you really do get what you pay for. See: http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-ap... Note that the HP Touchpad charger is rated slightly higher than Apple's charger, but it's not cheap either. Right now Amazon lists the HP charger for $17.99 and the Apple 12w iPad charger for $19.00. Not much difference in price. The $2.00 chargers are gambling with your device (and maybe even your life).
    - enscr 12y ago
      I knew someone was going to post that link. There's no price justification in that link other than saying $2 chargers are bad & so are $19 ones. So, does that mean $30 is the price point. Ofcourse not. You are missing the point. I'm not saying $2 chargers are the right price. I'm saying, Apple overprices everything, include headphone cables, phone cases and what not. Their retail price is BOM + Retail_Markup + R&D + Apple_Markup. That last component is what I'm talking about.
      - Turing_Machine 12y ago
        I provided evidence. You provided none other than your opinion. Kindly provide a link to a charger of comparable quality to Apple's that costs significantly less than the $19 you can buy one for on Amazon.
        enscr 12y ago
        The link that you posted is an excellent comparison BUT no evidence that "$30" is the right price point for a good charger. The iPhone charger has poor rating on current sag. The ipad charger has poor rating on voltage sag.
        hatbert 12y ago
        Actually, the Apple chargers in that link displayed the expected behavior for the USB 2.0 "extended power" (can't think of the actual title) specification. The author has a fancy oscilloscope, but that doesn't mean he/she knows everything.

by enscr 12y ago

ghshephard 12y ago

"But expecting to price the phone at more than twice what they are worth " Apple has a gross margin of 39%, which is pretty good, but presuming the minimum gross margin an electronics manufacturer requires for a sustainable business is 20% - It's the difference between charging $560 for a $400 BOM vs $480. Even if you don't value Apple's Operating System, Ecosystem of Developers, content, support, quality, design - let's say that all has absolutely zero value - Apple is still charging about 16% more than what their phones are "worth." Where Apple really cleans up is in the 32/64 GB iPhones - They really take their customers to the cleaners for the extra 16/48 GB of flash ($100 and $200 respectively)

enscr 12y ago
They are making money from the ecosystem of developers & content separately. Why should it be counted in the price of the phone? Secondly, I didn't discount the quality/design from the phone price. Apple doesn't just overcharge for additional flash, they overcharge at every possible item in your phone. Example : $30 cables/connectors/chargers. On top of that, they sell you last years model at a premium too. Up until a few months, they were selling iPad 2 at some ridiculous price. The BOM cost goes down significantly with new rev of components coming out, be it the camera module, the previous generation app processor, the foundry charges, the low res LCD,...
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  "Example : $30 cables/connectors/chargers." When it comes to chargers, you really do get what you pay for. See: http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html http://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-ap... Note that the HP Touchpad charger is rated slightly higher than Apple's charger, but it's not cheap either. Right now Amazon lists the HP charger for $17.99 and the Apple 12w iPad charger for $19.00. Not much difference in price. The $2.00 chargers are gambling with your device (and maybe even your life).
  - enscr 12y ago
    I knew someone was going to post that link. There's no price justification in that link other than saying $2 chargers are bad & so are $19 ones. So, does that mean $30 is the price point. Ofcourse not. You are missing the point. I'm not saying $2 chargers are the right price. I'm saying, Apple overprices everything, include headphone cables, phone cases and what not. Their retail price is BOM + Retail_Markup + R&D + Apple_Markup. That last component is what I'm talking about.
    - Turing_Machine 12y ago
      I provided evidence. You provided none other than your opinion. Kindly provide a link to a charger of comparable quality to Apple's that costs significantly less than the $19 you can buy one for on Amazon.
      - enscr 12y ago
        The link that you posted is an excellent comparison BUT no evidence that "$30" is the right price point for a good charger. The iPhone charger has poor rating on current sag. The ipad charger has poor rating on voltage sag.
        hatbert 12y ago
        Actually, the Apple chargers in that link displayed the expected behavior for the USB 2.0 "extended power" (can't think of the actual title) specification. The author has a fancy oscilloscope, but that doesn't mean he/she knows everything.