5 ms·

This is the key sentence in the article: >However, 90% of Swiss workers earn well above the proposed minimum and are already among the highest paid in the worl

by copx 12y ago

This is the key sentence in the article: >However, 90% of Swiss workers earn well above the proposed minimum and are already among the highest paid in the world.

BasDirks 12y ago
It's the key sentence from a US-centric point of view.
id 12y ago
This law aims at the 10% that don't earn well. The US isn't a poor country either. In fact, Americans are also among the highest paid in the world [1]. It's just not evenly distributed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_w...
- room271 12y ago
  It doesn't matter whether a country is rich or poor, but whether people are rich or poor. And the USA has a lot of poor people.
- cma 12y ago
  Due to the marginal utility of money dropping rapidly as you get more, uneven distribution is much worse than it sounds.
bayesianhorse 12y ago
Which means about 10% earn less. Which is a big portion of the labor force that has to be paid more or let go. This is potentially a very big shock for the swiss economy.
- andreasklinger 12y ago
  I think "lower salaries == more people employed" is an overly simplified model economists teach us to justify dropping wages. Imho lower salaries doesn't create more jobs it just creates more desperate people willing to work for lower salaries because of its downward loop. I know this opinion is not popular in the states. But this has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism is about common ownership, common management. Minimum salaries is about raising the middle class.
  - bsder 12y ago
    Exactly. What this is likely to do is to displace immigrants working illegally with citizens working legally. Imagine what would happen to California unemployment if all the agribusinesses suddenly had to pay a real minimum wage. Illegal immigration would get almost completely displaced with actual citizens willing to do the work now that there was a reasonable wage behind it.
    - icebraining 12y ago
      If you're already hiring illegal aliens, why would you respect the minimum wage?
    - bayesianhorse 12y ago
      Problem with that assessment: Switzerland doesn't have a lot of illegal immigrants or even a lot of low-skilled legal immigrants for that matter. Even if there were illegal immigrants being displaced, where would the supply of legal labor come from, suddenly? Certainly not from the jobless. It's simply an illusion that people on a broad scale would choose unemployment because of low wages...
      - NicoJuicy 12y ago
        Switzerland even wants to limit immigrants who come to work in Swiss. They introduced immigration quotes, which is illegal for the EU : http://goo.gl/xBmX12 http://goo.gl/xBmX12
        bayesianhorse 12y ago
        Oh, that issue is even more complicated. For one thing, Switzerland isn't in the EU, but they benefit and depend more than they'd like to admit from trading with the EU and from highly skilled immigrants they don't have to pay to educate. So they do have certain treaties about free trade, and mobility of workers is an important condition in these treaties. In breaking the treaty, there will be at least some consequences. Also, the opinion about immigrants in Switzerland seems to be very complicated. People seem to both feel "We have to much immigration", but they don't want to get rid of the immigrants they know and depend on. For that matter, they think there are too many Germans in Switzerland, on the other hand their economy extremely depends on those immigrants. The government will be hard pressed to find enough immigrants they can get rid of without serious consequences and even antagonizing those voters who voted for the restrictions in the first place.
- chongli 12y ago
  Paying people more means they'll have more money to spend which can create more jobs. There is no clear cut answer here. Anyone who claims they can predict exactly what will happen with any change to the minimum wage is either a liar or a fool.
  - grinnbearit 12y ago
    Raising the minimum price of chips will increase the amount of money given to chip companies which will give them more money to spend creating more jobs. How does artificially increasing the price of something make the market more likely to clear?
    - chrisbennet 12y ago
      "Raising the minimum price of chips will increase the amount of money given to chip companies which will give them more money to spend creating more jobs." This is not actually true. Companies only hire when then they have demand.
    - chongli 12y ago
      What are you talking about? I'm talking about minimum wage, not minimum prices on food. There's no such thing as a minimum price of chips anyway.
      - grinnbearit 12y ago
        A minimum wage is a minimum price on labour, its quite similar to a minimum price on chips and the market will respond in the same way

by copx 12y ago

This is the key sentence in the article: >However, 90% of Swiss workers earn well above the proposed minimum and are already among the highest paid in the world.

BasDirks 12y ago

It's the key sentence from a US-centric point of view.

id 12y ago

This law aims at the 10% that don't earn well. The US isn't a poor country either. In fact, Americans are also among the highest paid in the world [1]. It's just not evenly distributed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_w...

room271 12y ago
It doesn't matter whether a country is rich or poor, but whether people are rich or poor. And the USA has a lot of poor people.
cma 12y ago
Due to the marginal utility of money dropping rapidly as you get more, uneven distribution is much worse than it sounds.

bayesianhorse 12y ago

Which means about 10% earn less. Which is a big portion of the labor force that has to be paid more or let go. This is potentially a very big shock for the swiss economy.

andreasklinger 12y ago
I think "lower salaries == more people employed" is an overly simplified model economists teach us to justify dropping wages. Imho lower salaries doesn't create more jobs it just creates more desperate people willing to work for lower salaries because of its downward loop. I know this opinion is not popular in the states. But this has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism is about common ownership, common management. Minimum salaries is about raising the middle class.
- bsder 12y ago
  Exactly. What this is likely to do is to displace immigrants working illegally with citizens working legally. Imagine what would happen to California unemployment if all the agribusinesses suddenly had to pay a real minimum wage. Illegal immigration would get almost completely displaced with actual citizens willing to do the work now that there was a reasonable wage behind it.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    If you're already hiring illegal aliens, why would you respect the minimum wage?
  - bayesianhorse 12y ago
    Problem with that assessment: Switzerland doesn't have a lot of illegal immigrants or even a lot of low-skilled legal immigrants for that matter. Even if there were illegal immigrants being displaced, where would the supply of legal labor come from, suddenly? Certainly not from the jobless. It's simply an illusion that people on a broad scale would choose unemployment because of low wages...
    - NicoJuicy 12y ago
      Switzerland even wants to limit immigrants who come to work in Swiss. They introduced immigration quotes, which is illegal for the EU : http://goo.gl/xBmX12 http://goo.gl/xBmX12
      - bayesianhorse 12y ago
        Oh, that issue is even more complicated. For one thing, Switzerland isn't in the EU, but they benefit and depend more than they'd like to admit from trading with the EU and from highly skilled immigrants they don't have to pay to educate. So they do have certain treaties about free trade, and mobility of workers is an important condition in these treaties. In breaking the treaty, there will be at least some consequences. Also, the opinion about immigrants in Switzerland seems to be very complicated. People seem to both feel "We have to much immigration", but they don't want to get rid of the immigrants they know and depend on. For that matter, they think there are too many Germans in Switzerland, on the other hand their economy extremely depends on those immigrants. The government will be hard pressed to find enough immigrants they can get rid of without serious consequences and even antagonizing those voters who voted for the restrictions in the first place.
chongli 12y ago
Paying people more means they'll have more money to spend which can create more jobs. There is no clear cut answer here. Anyone who claims they can predict exactly what will happen with any change to the minimum wage is either a liar or a fool.
- grinnbearit 12y ago
  Raising the minimum price of chips will increase the amount of money given to chip companies which will give them more money to spend creating more jobs. How does artificially increasing the price of something make the market more likely to clear?
  - chrisbennet 12y ago
    "Raising the minimum price of chips will increase the amount of money given to chip companies which will give them more money to spend creating more jobs." This is not actually true. Companies only hire when then they have demand.
  - chongli 12y ago
    What are you talking about? I'm talking about minimum wage, not minimum prices on food. There's no such thing as a minimum price of chips anyway.
    - grinnbearit 12y ago
      A minimum wage is a minimum price on labour, its quite similar to a minimum price on chips and the market will respond in the same way