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I feel like I'm the only one taking crazy pills whenever this topic comes up. Granted, tmux has a better configuration language. However the whole session/win

I feel like I'm the only one taking crazy pills whenever this topic comes up. Granted, tmux has a better configuration language. However the whole session/window/pane/instance model is bizarre, as evidenced by the secition "Multiple Clients Sharing One Session" under "common problems" in the linked article. On top of that, the below are all given as points in favor of tmux, but they're either arguably better in screen or else a wash: > Better redraw model This is one of the (many) things that drove me back to screen. The two times I tried tmux, it had exactly this kind of issue where it would fail to redraw the screen correctly after SIGWINCH. > screen contents persisted through full-screen programs doesn't this depend on whether the program calls curses endwin() function ? why does tmux/screen need to know about this ? > not possible to remove the visual bell from Screen completely doesn't this work? vbell off bell_msg "" though I'm not sure why you would want to do such a thing. > automatic window renaming last I checked this used a huge amount of cpu. is that no longer the case ? in any case, I name my windows according to what i'm doing in that window, since "bash" or "screen" (I use nested screen sessions) or "emacs" is not a useful window title. > vertical splits newish screen does this. I don't see the use. I figure I either have a roughly 80-column screen (default linux virtual terminals) or it's wide enough to have multiple 80-column windows (laptop or desktop running X). If I have enough horizontal space, I'm using a sensible window manager that is better-suited to real estate management. Also how does tmux handle copy/paste with vertical splits ? > vi key bindings in copy mode is this supposed to be a win for tmux over screen ? both basic emacs and vi movement works out of the box in screen.

YTowOnt9 12y ago
> Also how does tmux handle copy/paste with vertical splits ? It doesn't. If I want to copy some text and it's in a vertical split, well... shit. Time to break out the tmux manual and see if I can figure out how to move this pane above the other one. You know what, screw it. I'll just open a new window entirely, and re-run the test there so I can copy the output. That's how tmux handles copy/paste with vertical splits.
- mnem 12y ago
  I may have misunderstood what you meant, but copy and paste in tmux works in vertical panes just the same as horizontal panes: http://d.pr/i/93p2/wNHyqVFr http://d.pr/i/93p2/wNHyqVFr (copied from the right shell into vim in the left).
  - alec 12y ago
    I think he's asking what happens if you have two panes side-by-side and try to select text in one to copy. Does it also select text from the other one?
    - mitchty 12y ago
      If you use a mouse yeah, but as noted by others, with tmux 1.8+ just prefix-z and you can temporarily zoom that one pane. So there really isn't much reason to complain about this particularly.
      - pekk 12y ago
        This is much more awkward than just selecting it with the mouse. That's a reason to complain.
        stormbrew 12y ago
        Well, this is not really the dilemma though. If you don't have vertical splits you don't have this problem, but you also don't have vertical splits. If you have vertical splits you'll solve this problem somehow.
        madeofpalk 12y ago
        idk what everyone else here is talking about, but I can copy with vertical panes with my mouse just fine http://i.imgur.com/lWxygYn.png http://i.imgur.com/lWxygYn.png
        12y ago
jzawodn 12y ago
Every 4-6 months, after reading some articles about tmux, I get the urge to try it again. And I always come back to screen for many of the same reasons (and the fact that it's not on a lot of systems by default). The session/window/pane/instance thing is definitely confusing and not well explained. I think it's even worse if you already have a lot of screen experience.
- weitzj 12y ago
  I agree with you that if you have to work with multiple systems where you do not have control over installing packages, you might be better off to use pre-installed screen and vi with default configs so you can get right to work. But if you have your own workstation and do most of the work with this workstation, tmux + customized configs might be a viable option. It just depends how good your muscle memory will keep up. :)
- blueblob 12y ago
  From my experience screen isn't on a lot of systems either. Usually the admins that I work with are willing to install both/either at request. screen has the equivalent to sessions as well `screen -ls` will show them whereas `tmux list-sessions` will show the tmux ones. A window is composed of panes (analogy from physical windows, pane of glass). An instance is one user on a session.
  - gradstudent 12y ago
    > From my experience screen isn't on a lot of systems either. Can you name one distro that doesn't include it by default? In my experience you can rely on just about every system having a core set of utilities: bash, vim, screen, ssh etc.
    - karlshea 12y ago
      I swear I've had to install it before on Ubuntu. This would have been awhile ago though.
    - colordrops 12y ago
a3_nm 12y ago
>> screen contents persisted through full-screen programs > doesn't this depend on whether the program calls curses endwin() function ? why does tmux/screen need to know about this ? I just tested out of curiosity. Running vim and exiting in tmux reverts to the previous screen contents, like in raw urxvt; in screen, the previous screen contents are lost. I do not know why.
- SoftwareMaven 12y ago
  And I just tested it, too, and my terminal contents were restored. As they were with nano and emacs.
- lmz 12y ago
  According to this page it is related to the smcup & rmcup capability: http://chenyufei.info/blog/2011-12-15/prevent-vim-less-clear-screen-on-exit/ http://chenyufei.info/blog/2011-12-15/prevent-vim-less-clear...
- keeperofdakeys 12y ago
  This is a weird feature called a "secondary screen", which means that the terminal secretly has a second buffer to draw ncurses programs on. The OP probably had this disabled in screen, so it didn't work in their terminal.
  - bgaluszka 12y ago
    By [1] To turn it on add 'altscreen on' to ~/.screenrc [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Screen https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Screen
alec 12y ago
I'm with you. I tried tmux but didn't find any benefit and several serious drawbacks. Many of the purported benefits - better configuration language, more maintainable code - don't matter to me: - Screen is done and isn't going to change. Debian has had the vertical splits patch for so long I was surprised it was a patch. - My configuration of screen is not going to change. It's five lines that I copied and pasted 10 years ago. There's just not that much that needs to be configured. The "Multiple Clients Sharing One Session" thing is important to me and screen gets it right by default. It's useful to have a few fixed xterms on my screen and a bunch of multiplexed terminals in screen. I use one screen session per task. I think "screen contents persisted through full-screen programs" is screen's "altscreen on" setting. Or at least that's my note from the person whose screenrc I stole.
Gimpson 12y ago
> Also how does tmux handle copy/paste with vertical splits? This drove me nuts until I found block select. (Option-Command drag in OSX). That pretty much eliminated that problem for me.
- mateuszf 12y ago
  Also prefix+z maximizes/restores a pane.
barrkel 12y ago
screen contents persisted through full-screen programs The setting in ~/.screenrc that the article is missing is called "altscreen on".

YTowOnt9 12y ago

> Also how does tmux handle copy/paste with vertical splits ? It doesn't. If I want to copy some text and it's in a vertical split, well... shit. Time to break out the tmux manual and see if I can figure out how to move this pane above the other one. You know what, screw it. I'll just open a new window entirely, and re-run the test there so I can copy the output. That's how tmux handles copy/paste with vertical splits.

mnem 12y ago
I may have misunderstood what you meant, but copy and paste in tmux works in vertical panes just the same as horizontal panes: http://d.pr/i/93p2/wNHyqVFr http://d.pr/i/93p2/wNHyqVFr (copied from the right shell into vim in the left).
- alec 12y ago
  I think he's asking what happens if you have two panes side-by-side and try to select text in one to copy. Does it also select text from the other one?
  - mitchty 12y ago
    If you use a mouse yeah, but as noted by others, with tmux 1.8+ just prefix-z and you can temporarily zoom that one pane. So there really isn't much reason to complain about this particularly.
    - pekk 12y ago
      This is much more awkward than just selecting it with the mouse. That's a reason to complain.
      - stormbrew 12y ago
        Well, this is not really the dilemma though. If you don't have vertical splits you don't have this problem, but you also don't have vertical splits. If you have vertical splits you'll solve this problem somehow.
      - madeofpalk 12y ago
        idk what everyone else here is talking about, but I can copy with vertical panes with my mouse just fine http://i.imgur.com/lWxygYn.png http://i.imgur.com/lWxygYn.png
        12y ago

jzawodn 12y ago

Every 4-6 months, after reading some articles about tmux, I get the urge to try it again. And I always come back to screen for many of the same reasons (and the fact that it's not on a lot of systems by default). The session/window/pane/instance thing is definitely confusing and not well explained. I think it's even worse if you already have a lot of screen experience.

weitzj 12y ago
I agree with you that if you have to work with multiple systems where you do not have control over installing packages, you might be better off to use pre-installed screen and vi with default configs so you can get right to work. But if you have your own workstation and do most of the work with this workstation, tmux + customized configs might be a viable option. It just depends how good your muscle memory will keep up. :)
blueblob 12y ago
From my experience screen isn't on a lot of systems either. Usually the admins that I work with are willing to install both/either at request. screen has the equivalent to sessions as well `screen -ls` will show them whereas `tmux list-sessions` will show the tmux ones. A window is composed of panes (analogy from physical windows, pane of glass). An instance is one user on a session.
- gradstudent 12y ago
  > From my experience screen isn't on a lot of systems either. Can you name one distro that doesn't include it by default? In my experience you can rely on just about every system having a core set of utilities: bash, vim, screen, ssh etc.
  - karlshea 12y ago
    I swear I've had to install it before on Ubuntu. This would have been awhile ago though.
  - colordrops 12y ago

a3_nm 12y ago

>> screen contents persisted through full-screen programs > doesn't this depend on whether the program calls curses endwin() function ? why does tmux/screen need to know about this ? I just tested out of curiosity. Running vim and exiting in tmux reverts to the previous screen contents, like in raw urxvt; in screen, the previous screen contents are lost. I do not know why.

SoftwareMaven 12y ago
And I just tested it, too, and my terminal contents were restored. As they were with nano and emacs.
lmz 12y ago
According to this page it is related to the smcup & rmcup capability: http://chenyufei.info/blog/2011-12-15/prevent-vim-less-clear-screen-on-exit/ http://chenyufei.info/blog/2011-12-15/prevent-vim-less-clear...
keeperofdakeys 12y ago
This is a weird feature called a "secondary screen", which means that the terminal secretly has a second buffer to draw ncurses programs on. The OP probably had this disabled in screen, so it didn't work in their terminal.
- bgaluszka 12y ago
  By [1] To turn it on add 'altscreen on' to ~/.screenrc [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Screen https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNU_Screen

alec 12y ago

I'm with you. I tried tmux but didn't find any benefit and several serious drawbacks. Many of the purported benefits - better configuration language, more maintainable code - don't matter to me: - Screen is done and isn't going to change. Debian has had the vertical splits patch for so long I was surprised it was a patch. - My configuration of screen is not going to change. It's five lines that I copied and pasted 10 years ago. There's just not that much that needs to be configured. The "Multiple Clients Sharing One Session" thing is important to me and screen gets it right by default. It's useful to have a few fixed xterms on my screen and a bunch of multiplexed terminals in screen. I use one screen session per task. I think "screen contents persisted through full-screen programs" is screen's "altscreen on" setting. Or at least that's my note from the person whose screenrc I stole.

Gimpson 12y ago

> Also how does tmux handle copy/paste with vertical splits? This drove me nuts until I found block select. (Option-Command drag in OSX). That pretty much eliminated that problem for me.

mateuszf 12y ago
Also prefix+z maximizes/restores a pane.

barrkel 12y ago

screen contents persisted through full-screen programs The setting in ~/.screenrc that the article is missing is called "altscreen on".