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"I have become profoundly tired of being a therapist and a babysitter" Then don't be one. I'm a female manager and as soon as that shit starts I shut it down.

"I have become profoundly tired of being a therapist and a babysitter" Then don't be one. I'm a female manager and as soon as that shit starts I shut it down. People only get away with that crap because people tolerate it and I notice they often tolerate it more with women. I don't. Someone who drains time with gossip or whining gets fired. Doesn't matter if they are a man or a woman. Also notice she talks about a receptionist, not an engineer. I admit I have struggled finding admin staff like receptionists that aren't drama queens. If you hired men for those kind of positions they'd be the same– these are lower status jobs and attract people who can't do well in high-paid higher status jobs. Since I work with some IT construction I also work with lower-status men and they are also very hard to manage. They often quit to mooch off of others or are late to work because of fights with their girlfriends or whatever.

throwaway516 12y ago
Throwaway for obvious reasons. Several years ago I managed a team of three male engineers and one female engineer (who was younger by the men by around 8-10 years) working on a typical software project complete with tight deadlines and the usual last minute rush. Two days before launch while trying to diagnose a particularly obscure bug the team digressed from trying to fix the bug to griping about which framework was used and why it was a bad decision and how unrealistic the expectations from the client were, etc. As a developer I can sympathize with this frustration so I let it go on for about 15-20 minutes and then I interrupted the group by saying something like "We can act like babies and whine and bitch about the things that are beyond our control or we can accept those facts, put our heads down and push forward like fucking adults". The language was rough, but I like everyone else had worked 60+ hours that week. The team begrudgingly agreed and after a coffee run went back to work. The project launched on time the next day (Friday) and everything seemed fine. We all went out for lunch, toasted to success and hard work, and then went home early for the weekend. On Monday, the female engineer didn't show up for work, no call, no email, and didn't respond to phone calls. Tuesday and Wednesday the same thing. On Thursday I received the "hostile work environment" claim stating that I had singled her out and referred to her specifically as a "bitch" and a "baby" and my favorite part, that we used sexist names such as "Factory Girl" in our everyday work environment. On Friday we met with our lawyer who explained that despite having three other witnesses that would testify that her story is shenanigans and that FactoryGirl is a commonly used library that we didn't name, it would be cheaper from a cost perspective and from a PR perspective to settle out of court. The settlement cost more than the project brought in.
- mamoswined 12y ago
  And then people get all mad when companies want to record everything their employees do. Things like this are exactly why.
- morenoh149 12y ago
  woah. That's really a shame and makes working in this industry more difficult. The fact that you have to be so careful around women or you'll be labeled sexist or get sued. I'm all for protecting people but people should also understand when it's work time and when it's play time.
icambron 12y ago
Note, FWIW, that the article doesn't specify that she's in tech at all, and besides receptionist, there aren't really any roles specified at all. I think the first question everyone should be asking is, "what kind of jobs are we even talking about?"
unclebucknasty 12y ago
>People only get away with that crap because people tolerate it Man, did you ever nail it. The people who do this kind of stuff are needy, and they are frequently bottomless in their neediness. When they see someone who is patient or tolerant of their nonsense, they will lock in like rabid pit bulls (apologies to rabid pit bulls), and they will make that person responsible for their emotional well-being. Now, once you've allowed them to go down this path, you're headed for trouble. You think you're just being nice or understanding, but you can never satisfy these people, so at some point you will have to draw the line. And when you do, they will perceive it as some grand slight because you were once so "kind" to them. Then, more drama, but this time you're the bad guy. Bottom line: you can't entertain it for a second. As soon as it is spotted, cut it out like the cancer that it is and keep it moving.
mobiplayer 12y ago
So we went from sexist (op) to classist? I don't understand how you got away so far with all that "lower-status" shit. It's not only that you call some jobs "low-status jobs", but you went as far as calling people "lower-status men" just because.
- mamoswined 12y ago
  You don't have to be low class to have a lower-status job. Lower-status jobs are just jobs that are lower paid and not as desirable to have. I grew up poor in the Deep South, my boss comes from a persecuted minority culture, and some of the folks with the lower-status jobs came from nice neighborhoods on the East Coast and went to private school, so at least in my line of work it doesn't intersect with "class."
  - mobiplayer 12y ago
    English is not my first language, not even the second, but I'm sure you're misusing "status" here. Those jobs could be low paid, but not "lower-status". By the way, you're implying that coming from the Deep South or "coming from"* (sic) a persecuted minority culture are two examples of low class, but I fail to see how is it related at all. I've got the feeling that you rank people based on the job they do. It is a shame because you're missing many interesting conversations.

throwaway516 12y ago

Throwaway for obvious reasons. Several years ago I managed a team of three male engineers and one female engineer (who was younger by the men by around 8-10 years) working on a typical software project complete with tight deadlines and the usual last minute rush. Two days before launch while trying to diagnose a particularly obscure bug the team digressed from trying to fix the bug to griping about which framework was used and why it was a bad decision and how unrealistic the expectations from the client were, etc. As a developer I can sympathize with this frustration so I let it go on for about 15-20 minutes and then I interrupted the group by saying something like "We can act like babies and whine and bitch about the things that are beyond our control or we can accept those facts, put our heads down and push forward like fucking adults". The language was rough, but I like everyone else had worked 60+ hours that week. The team begrudgingly agreed and after a coffee run went back to work. The project launched on time the next day (Friday) and everything seemed fine. We all went out for lunch, toasted to success and hard work, and then went home early for the weekend. On Monday, the female engineer didn't show up for work, no call, no email, and didn't respond to phone calls. Tuesday and Wednesday the same thing. On Thursday I received the "hostile work environment" claim stating that I had singled her out and referred to her specifically as a "bitch" and a "baby" and my favorite part, that we used sexist names such as "Factory Girl" in our everyday work environment. On Friday we met with our lawyer who explained that despite having three other witnesses that would testify that her story is shenanigans and that FactoryGirl is a commonly used library that we didn't name, it would be cheaper from a cost perspective and from a PR perspective to settle out of court. The settlement cost more than the project brought in.

mamoswined 12y ago
And then people get all mad when companies want to record everything their employees do. Things like this are exactly why.
morenoh149 12y ago
woah. That's really a shame and makes working in this industry more difficult. The fact that you have to be so careful around women or you'll be labeled sexist or get sued. I'm all for protecting people but people should also understand when it's work time and when it's play time.

icambron 12y ago

Note, FWIW, that the article doesn't specify that she's in tech at all, and besides receptionist, there aren't really any roles specified at all. I think the first question everyone should be asking is, "what kind of jobs are we even talking about?"

unclebucknasty 12y ago

>People only get away with that crap because people tolerate it Man, did you ever nail it. The people who do this kind of stuff are needy, and they are frequently bottomless in their neediness. When they see someone who is patient or tolerant of their nonsense, they will lock in like rabid pit bulls (apologies to rabid pit bulls), and they will make that person responsible for their emotional well-being. Now, once you've allowed them to go down this path, you're headed for trouble. You think you're just being nice or understanding, but you can never satisfy these people, so at some point you will have to draw the line. And when you do, they will perceive it as some grand slight because you were once so "kind" to them. Then, more drama, but this time you're the bad guy. Bottom line: you can't entertain it for a second. As soon as it is spotted, cut it out like the cancer that it is and keep it moving.

mobiplayer 12y ago

So we went from sexist (op) to classist? I don't understand how you got away so far with all that "lower-status" shit. It's not only that you call some jobs "low-status jobs", but you went as far as calling people "lower-status men" just because.

mamoswined 12y ago
You don't have to be low class to have a lower-status job. Lower-status jobs are just jobs that are lower paid and not as desirable to have. I grew up poor in the Deep South, my boss comes from a persecuted minority culture, and some of the folks with the lower-status jobs came from nice neighborhoods on the East Coast and went to private school, so at least in my line of work it doesn't intersect with "class."
- mobiplayer 12y ago
  English is not my first language, not even the second, but I'm sure you're misusing "status" here. Those jobs could be low paid, but not "lower-status". By the way, you're implying that coming from the Deep South or "coming from"* (sic) a persecuted minority culture are two examples of low class, but I fail to see how is it related at all. I've got the feeling that you rank people based on the job they do. It is a shame because you're missing many interesting conversations.