8 ms·

This seems like a good opportunity to post RMS' rider again: https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html http

This seems like a good opportunity to post RMS' rider again: https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developer... Fabulous stuff. I wonder how often he has/gets to hang out with random parrots since this document became widely known. In my mind he is surrounded constantly by sandal-wearing acolytes wielding exotic birds of every variety.

rimantas 12y ago
This was interesting but disturbing nonetheless…
netcan 12y ago
This is a fantastic read! If you have previously done streaming using some streaming service and you can't immediately name the format it uses, chances are it is unacceptable and I won't let you use it for my speech. ..This might seem unfair--if a ticket is lost, it could be my fault. But my income is not large, and I cannot afford to assume this risk myself if the event offers me no income. The frustration I feel when I suffer such a loss is excruciating. It is better for me to decline to travel to a certain place than to take such a risk. ..DON'T make a hotel reservation until we have fully explored other options. If there is anyone who wants to offer a spare couch, I would much rather stay there than in a hotel (provided I have a door I can close, in order to have some privacy)... ... If you have found a person for me to stay with, please forward this section and the two following sections to that person. ..find out what temperature it can actually lower a room to, during the relevant dates ..I like cats if they are friendly. ..Dogs that bark angrily and/or jump up on me frighten me .. .. find a host for me that has a friendly parrot.. ..DON'T buy a parrot figuring that it will be a fun surprise for me. To acquire a parrot is a major decision: it is likely to outlive you. If you don't know how to treat the parrot, it could be emotionally scarred and spend many decades feeling.. I do NOT use browsers, I use the SSH protocol.. .. If a hotel says "We have internet access.. .. What parameters does the user need to specify in order to talk with it?… … Don't rely on information from such a person--talk to someone who knows! .. their phone switchboard may not recognize the tones produced by modems.. When you need to tell me about a problem in a plan, please do not start with a long apology. That is unbearably boring. …If I am typing on my computer and it is time to do something else, please tell me. Don't wait for me to "finish working" first, because you would wait forever. I have to squeeze in answering mail at every possible opportunity, which includes whenever I have to wait. I wait by working. If instead of telling me there is no more need for me to wait, you wait for me to stop waiting for you, we will both wait forever -- or until I figure out what's happening. … Please don't try to pressure me to "relax" instead, and fall behind on my work I do not eat breakfast. Please do not ask me any questions about ..what I will do breakfast. ..Please just do not bring it up .. If there is a chance to see folk dancing… … If you want to give me data about airplane tickets, please send that info as plain ASCII text What a beautiful crazy person RMS is.
- arrrg 12y ago
  You know, I just read this again. I first read it in a ridiculing context (“Parrots? Really?”) and didn’t think much to put it out of that context, but looking at it now I have to say my view on it has changed. I think it’s pretty alright, actually. Some of his demands have to do with his strong ethical views on software, and while I don’t agree completely with him on this, I certainly can respect him for being uncompromising on that. He frequently emphasises the need to communicate. Decisions that affect both him and the host have to be decided together. He also shows quite some willingness to find alternate solutions if his preferred solution is somehow not possible, but emphasises the need to communicate about those changes. All the rest may be slightly quirky, but it’s all not especially hard to do with some care and attention. Hey, he doesn’t even want super-accomodating hospitality. (Also, hotel internet is the worst. Good on him for insisting that be properly checked. He needs it to work, after all.)
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - gnaffle 12y ago
    Agreed. It might be quirky, but I many of the things he lists here must be things he has experienced (like people buying parrots because they heard he likes parrots) and doesn't want happening again.
    - JonnieCache 12y ago
      You can tell it's been built up over many years, in response to real world problems. It's basically a stallman FAQ.
    - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
      It feels to me that you can't account for someone who would do something as ill considered as buying a parrot just because someone coming to stay with them for a couple of nights likes parrots.
  - rmc 12y ago
davedx 12y ago
"A supply of tea with milk and sugar would be nice. If it is tea I really like, I like it without milk and sugar. With milk and sugar, any kind of tea is fine. I always bring tea bags with me, so if we use my tea bags, I will certainly like that tea without milk or sugar. If I am quite sleepy, I would like two cans or small bottles of non-diet Pepsi. (I dislike the taste of coke, and of all diet soda; also, there is an international boycott of the Coca Cola company for killing union organizers in Colombia and Guatemala; see killercoke.org.) However, if I am not very sleepy, I won't want Pepsi, because it is better if I don't drink so much sugar." Eccentric.
- arrrg 12y ago
  Tea and Pepsi is eccentric?
- mcv 12y ago
  So you have to buy him pepsi but might be stuck with some undrunk pepsi afterward. Also, does he really want cans or small bottles over the more economical large bottle and a glass? (Yes, I'm currently imagining wat it'd be like to have him over. I think we'd get along fine on the tea thing, but I hate unnecessary waste.)
  - grrowl 12y ago
    Less economical — paying $2 for a small pepsi fully drunk is better value than paying $3 for one twice the size, if half is left undrunk (wasted). I like it almost as much as, "anyone who wants to offer a spare couch, I would much rather stay there than in a hotel" — keep it simple, don't waste, operate efficiently and without friction.
    - mcv 12y ago
      Yeah, but it's two pepsis. Then I think a single large one becomes more economical. Less bottle too. And I can return the large bottle but not the small ones.
- Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
qq66 12y ago
Well, you know that the admonition about buying a parrot is in there because it happened at least once. Nobody thinks up that case in advance. Overall the rider seems pretty reasonable for someone who travels so much and asks so little for doing so.
- mystral 12y ago
  Either that or he had just recently learnt about parrots and felt strongly enough to put it in.
Cyph0n 12y ago
Wow. He goes into so much detail - nothing is left to chance. I wish I was as good at him at covering every possible scenario.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  I suspect it comes from experience. He wouldn't have mentioned many of these things had he not had trouble with them, I bet.
poolpool 12y ago
The RMS rider is full of lecturing and childish demands. I'm amazed people are applauding him for it.
- TallGuyShort 12y ago
  I think it's more brutal honesty, than anything. As an engineer and a disliker-of-politicians, I appreciate it, even though I agree it can easily be seen as egotistical or eccentric. When I have hosted guests, I have really wished I had such a clear "opeating manual" (as others in this thread have called it) for them, so I know how I can make them feel comfortable and make their trip most effective.
  - rhizome 12y ago
    It's not even brutal.
- danielweber 12y ago
  I'm hardly a fan of RMS, but if you want him to speak, it's on you to meet these rules. It's what I call "autistic-friendly": print up this list, check off each and every item, and you don't have to worry about anything else. He has codified his behavior expectations. If someone didn't know RMS was particular, they weren't paying attention.
  - gambiting 12y ago
    It's an operating manual - if you stick to it, it will be fine.
- dspillett 12y ago
  > The RMS rider is full of lecturing and childish demands. They are no more demands than a request for him to speak somewhere is a demand. Someone asks if he is willing to travel and speak to their audience, he says "yes though only if these conditions are met", and the someone then has a free choice of whether to continue or not. A childish demand would be "we can't agree to X, but we expect you to come and talk anyway".
gadders 12y ago
That rider is like aspergers distilled.
thearn4 12y ago
Oh my.. I need need a cup of coffee to get all the way through this one
danielweber 12y ago
He is not willing to use the bus or the train if it requires using his real name. But he seems very willing to fly. What's the disconnect there?
- dllthomas 12y ago
  The gist, as best I recall, is that there's really no alternative to air travel. Even with ideological stances, there's a cost vs. benefit question.

rimantas 12y ago

This was interesting but disturbing nonetheless…

netcan 12y ago

This is a fantastic read! If you have previously done streaming using some streaming service and you can't immediately name the format it uses, chances are it is unacceptable and I won't let you use it for my speech. ..This might seem unfair--if a ticket is lost, it could be my fault. But my income is not large, and I cannot afford to assume this risk myself if the event offers me no income. The frustration I feel when I suffer such a loss is excruciating. It is better for me to decline to travel to a certain place than to take such a risk. ..DON'T make a hotel reservation until we have fully explored other options. If there is anyone who wants to offer a spare couch, I would much rather stay there than in a hotel (provided I have a door I can close, in order to have some privacy)... ... If you have found a person for me to stay with, please forward this section and the two following sections to that person. ..find out what temperature it can actually lower a room to, during the relevant dates ..I like cats if they are friendly. ..Dogs that bark angrily and/or jump up on me frighten me .. .. find a host for me that has a friendly parrot.. ..DON'T buy a parrot figuring that it will be a fun surprise for me. To acquire a parrot is a major decision: it is likely to outlive you. If you don't know how to treat the parrot, it could be emotionally scarred and spend many decades feeling.. I do NOT use browsers, I use the SSH protocol.. .. If a hotel says "We have internet access.. .. What parameters does the user need to specify in order to talk with it?… … Don't rely on information from such a person--talk to someone who knows! .. their phone switchboard may not recognize the tones produced by modems.. When you need to tell me about a problem in a plan, please do not start with a long apology. That is unbearably boring. …If I am typing on my computer and it is time to do something else, please tell me. Don't wait for me to "finish working" first, because you would wait forever. I have to squeeze in answering mail at every possible opportunity, which includes whenever I have to wait. I wait by working. If instead of telling me there is no more need for me to wait, you wait for me to stop waiting for you, we will both wait forever -- or until I figure out what's happening. … Please don't try to pressure me to "relax" instead, and fall behind on my work I do not eat breakfast. Please do not ask me any questions about ..what I will do breakfast. ..Please just do not bring it up .. If there is a chance to see folk dancing… … If you want to give me data about airplane tickets, please send that info as plain ASCII text What a beautiful crazy person RMS is.

arrrg 12y ago
You know, I just read this again. I first read it in a ridiculing context (“Parrots? Really?”) and didn’t think much to put it out of that context, but looking at it now I have to say my view on it has changed. I think it’s pretty alright, actually. Some of his demands have to do with his strong ethical views on software, and while I don’t agree completely with him on this, I certainly can respect him for being uncompromising on that. He frequently emphasises the need to communicate. Decisions that affect both him and the host have to be decided together. He also shows quite some willingness to find alternate solutions if his preferred solution is somehow not possible, but emphasises the need to communicate about those changes. All the rest may be slightly quirky, but it’s all not especially hard to do with some care and attention. Hey, he doesn’t even want super-accomodating hospitality. (Also, hotel internet is the worst. Good on him for insisting that be properly checked. He needs it to work, after all.)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- gnaffle 12y ago
  Agreed. It might be quirky, but I many of the things he lists here must be things he has experienced (like people buying parrots because they heard he likes parrots) and doesn't want happening again.
  - JonnieCache 12y ago
    You can tell it's been built up over many years, in response to real world problems. It's basically a stallman FAQ.
  - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
    It feels to me that you can't account for someone who would do something as ill considered as buying a parrot just because someone coming to stay with them for a couple of nights likes parrots.
- rmc 12y ago

davedx 12y ago

"A supply of tea with milk and sugar would be nice. If it is tea I really like, I like it without milk and sugar. With milk and sugar, any kind of tea is fine. I always bring tea bags with me, so if we use my tea bags, I will certainly like that tea without milk or sugar. If I am quite sleepy, I would like two cans or small bottles of non-diet Pepsi. (I dislike the taste of coke, and of all diet soda; also, there is an international boycott of the Coca Cola company for killing union organizers in Colombia and Guatemala; see killercoke.org.) However, if I am not very sleepy, I won't want Pepsi, because it is better if I don't drink so much sugar." Eccentric.

arrrg 12y ago
Tea and Pepsi is eccentric?
mcv 12y ago
So you have to buy him pepsi but might be stuck with some undrunk pepsi afterward. Also, does he really want cans or small bottles over the more economical large bottle and a glass? (Yes, I'm currently imagining wat it'd be like to have him over. I think we'd get along fine on the tea thing, but I hate unnecessary waste.)
- grrowl 12y ago
  Less economical — paying $2 for a small pepsi fully drunk is better value than paying $3 for one twice the size, if half is left undrunk (wasted). I like it almost as much as, "anyone who wants to offer a spare couch, I would much rather stay there than in a hotel" — keep it simple, don't waste, operate efficiently and without friction.
  - mcv 12y ago
    Yeah, but it's two pepsis. Then I think a single large one becomes more economical. Less bottle too. And I can return the large bottle but not the small ones.
Tyrannosaurs 12y ago

qq66 12y ago

Well, you know that the admonition about buying a parrot is in there because it happened at least once. Nobody thinks up that case in advance. Overall the rider seems pretty reasonable for someone who travels so much and asks so little for doing so.

mystral 12y ago
Either that or he had just recently learnt about parrots and felt strongly enough to put it in.

Cyph0n 12y ago

Wow. He goes into so much detail - nothing is left to chance. I wish I was as good at him at covering every possible scenario.

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
I suspect it comes from experience. He wouldn't have mentioned many of these things had he not had trouble with them, I bet.

poolpool 12y ago

The RMS rider is full of lecturing and childish demands. I'm amazed people are applauding him for it.

TallGuyShort 12y ago
I think it's more brutal honesty, than anything. As an engineer and a disliker-of-politicians, I appreciate it, even though I agree it can easily be seen as egotistical or eccentric. When I have hosted guests, I have really wished I had such a clear "opeating manual" (as others in this thread have called it) for them, so I know how I can make them feel comfortable and make their trip most effective.
- rhizome 12y ago
  It's not even brutal.
danielweber 12y ago
I'm hardly a fan of RMS, but if you want him to speak, it's on you to meet these rules. It's what I call "autistic-friendly": print up this list, check off each and every item, and you don't have to worry about anything else. He has codified his behavior expectations. If someone didn't know RMS was particular, they weren't paying attention.
- gambiting 12y ago
  It's an operating manual - if you stick to it, it will be fine.
dspillett 12y ago
> The RMS rider is full of lecturing and childish demands. They are no more demands than a request for him to speak somewhere is a demand. Someone asks if he is willing to travel and speak to their audience, he says "yes though only if these conditions are met", and the someone then has a free choice of whether to continue or not. A childish demand would be "we can't agree to X, but we expect you to come and talk anyway".

gadders 12y ago

That rider is like aspergers distilled.

thearn4 12y ago

Oh my.. I need need a cup of coffee to get all the way through this one

danielweber 12y ago

He is not willing to use the bus or the train if it requires using his real name. But he seems very willing to fly. What's the disconnect there?

dllthomas 12y ago
The gist, as best I recall, is that there's really no alternative to air travel. Even with ideological stances, there's a cost vs. benefit question.