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Immigration to the UK has created a labour surplus. It's not a coincidence that the UKIP is doing well.

brazzy 12y ago
No, it hasn't: http://www.migrationpolicycentre.eu/migration-myths-migration-unemployment/ http://www.migrationpolicycentre.eu/migration-myths-migratio...
- benaston 12y ago
  Correlation is not causation. Sorry that was too easy ;P
  - brazzy 12y ago
    Try to understand what something means before you mindlessly parrot it. The article I linked to shows that there is no correlation, or even negative correlation between immigration and unemployment. And that actually proves pretty conclusively that there is no causation.
    - benaston 12y ago
      OK, my comment was glib, but I do understand the meaning of "correlation is not causation". The link you provide attempts to refute the argument that "immigration causes unemployment". You correctly point out that no correlation was found in the case of the UK. My point (and hence my rather glib comment) is that this lack of correlation tells us nothing about causation. Importantly, taking unemployment overall conceals that fact that certain portions of the workforce (i.e. the young and low paid) are disproportionately affected by a rapid influx of young tradesmen and low-skilled workers.
- mcantelon 12y ago
  Whether or not immigration causes the increased unemployment, when there's more unemployed than there are jobs it's pretty hard to argue that immigration, which increases the labour pool, improves the situation. Establishment EU politicians seem to generally support immigration, which makes sense if one's objective is to lower the cost of labour for business (and weaken the power of unions).
rdl 12y ago
Immigration creating a surplus, or the economy itself hollowing out to eliminate jobs? As far as I can tell the UK is basically the City (as an export). Ultimately that doesn't require a lot of jobs, and they're either high skilled, or exist to support the City workers. (obviously this isn't completely true, but the financial industry is even bigger as a percentage of exports in the UK than it is in the US, although nowhere near Liechtenstein levels)
- mcantelon 12y ago
  >Immigration creating a surplus, or the economy itself hollowing out to eliminate jobs? Or the economy hollowing out and immigration amplifying the problem. They're certainly not mutually exclusive.
levosmetalo 12y ago
No, immigration filled the jobs that would otherwise stay unfilled and thus moved permanently to other countries because of no possibility to fill them domestically. On the other side, lost jobs are lost because there's no more need for them. One robot caused one thousand of unemployed factory workers, and the need for this kind of jobs is not going to increase anymore. Or are you trying to say that lowly skilled workers from closed factories would somehow successfully fill roles in finance or technology, but there are only immigrants staying in their way.
- mcantelon 12y ago
  >No, immigration filled the jobs that would otherwise stay unfilled and thus moved permanently to other countries because of no possibility to fill them domestically. Lots of immigrants work service/retail jobs that aren't possible to fill overseas. >On the other side, lost jobs are lost because there's no more need for them. One robot caused one thousand of unemployed factory workers, and the need for this kind of jobs is not going to increase anymore. Yup. >Or are you trying to say that lowly skilled workers from closed factories would somehow successfully fill roles in finance or technology, but there are only immigrants staying in their way. What I'm saying is that a bigger labour pool increases competition for existing jobs and high rates of immigration makes this worse. Supply and demand.

No, it hasn't: http://www.migrationpolicycentre.eu/migration-myths-migration-unemployment/ http://www.migrationpolicycentre.eu/migration-myths-migratio...

benaston 12y ago
Correlation is not causation. Sorry that was too easy ;P
- brazzy 12y ago
  Try to understand what something means before you mindlessly parrot it. The article I linked to shows that there is no correlation, or even negative correlation between immigration and unemployment. And that actually proves pretty conclusively that there is no causation.
  - benaston 12y ago
    OK, my comment was glib, but I do understand the meaning of "correlation is not causation". The link you provide attempts to refute the argument that "immigration causes unemployment". You correctly point out that no correlation was found in the case of the UK. My point (and hence my rather glib comment) is that this lack of correlation tells us nothing about causation. Importantly, taking unemployment overall conceals that fact that certain portions of the workforce (i.e. the young and low paid) are disproportionately affected by a rapid influx of young tradesmen and low-skilled workers.
mcantelon 12y ago
Whether or not immigration causes the increased unemployment, when there's more unemployed than there are jobs it's pretty hard to argue that immigration, which increases the labour pool, improves the situation. Establishment EU politicians seem to generally support immigration, which makes sense if one's objective is to lower the cost of labour for business (and weaken the power of unions).

rdl 12y ago

Immigration creating a surplus, or the economy itself hollowing out to eliminate jobs? As far as I can tell the UK is basically the City (as an export). Ultimately that doesn't require a lot of jobs, and they're either high skilled, or exist to support the City workers. (obviously this isn't completely true, but the financial industry is even bigger as a percentage of exports in the UK than it is in the US, although nowhere near Liechtenstein levels)

mcantelon 12y ago
>Immigration creating a surplus, or the economy itself hollowing out to eliminate jobs? Or the economy hollowing out and immigration amplifying the problem. They're certainly not mutually exclusive.

levosmetalo 12y ago

No, immigration filled the jobs that would otherwise stay unfilled and thus moved permanently to other countries because of no possibility to fill them domestically. On the other side, lost jobs are lost because there's no more need for them. One robot caused one thousand of unemployed factory workers, and the need for this kind of jobs is not going to increase anymore. Or are you trying to say that lowly skilled workers from closed factories would somehow successfully fill roles in finance or technology, but there are only immigrants staying in their way.

mcantelon 12y ago
>No, immigration filled the jobs that would otherwise stay unfilled and thus moved permanently to other countries because of no possibility to fill them domestically. Lots of immigrants work service/retail jobs that aren't possible to fill overseas. >On the other side, lost jobs are lost because there's no more need for them. One robot caused one thousand of unemployed factory workers, and the need for this kind of jobs is not going to increase anymore. Yup. >Or are you trying to say that lowly skilled workers from closed factories would somehow successfully fill roles in finance or technology, but there are only immigrants staying in their way. What I'm saying is that a bigger labour pool increases competition for existing jobs and high rates of immigration makes this worse. Supply and demand.