5 ms·

Feminist Programming Languages

7 points by foolrush 12y ago

Pitarou 12y ago
Well, women are good at typing and keeping things organised, so I guess they could be trained to operate tabulating machines. (It was just a joke. Please don't hurt me.)
- dang 12y ago
  Please don't make that sort of joke here.
  - Pitarou 12y ago
    Yup. Um. I'll show myself out, shall I?
Lazare 12y ago
Non-mobile link, if anyone cares: http://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/feminism-and-programming-languages http://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/femin... It's been discussed and linked around here many times, eg, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756 My view, for what its worth, is that she's asking good and valuable questions. We do have different programming paradigms, and those paradigms do shape how we solve problems, and even what problems we can solve, and it is very possible that a different viewpoint could stumble on a very different paradigm. There's a long history of outsiders making valuable contributions to programming and computer science. ...that being said, I rather doubt she's going to get far. The odds of someone doing a bit of research and coming up with something like functional programming or lambda calculus (which as I understand it is more or less what she wants to do) is effectively nil, no matter who you are. But I wish her the best of luck.
Stratoscope 12y ago
> In the scope of my research, a feminist programming language is to be built around a non-normative paradigm that represents alternative ways of abstracting. The intent is to encourage and allow new ways of thinking about problems such that we can code using a feminist ideology... > The idea came about while discussing normative and feminist subject object theory. I realized that object oriented programmed reifies normative subject object theory. This led me to wonder what a feminist programming language would look like, one that might allow you to create entanglements (Karen Barad Posthumanist Performativity). Somebody please tell me, is this like the Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity, or is it serious? This is actually a sincere question. My first reaction was that this must be a parody. What in the world would it mean to code using any kind of ideology? "I believe strongly in this principle, therefore my code is correct!" That's what it sounds like to me. But maybe there is something I missed entirely. If so, please enlighten me!
- foolrush 12y ago
  It is serious. It is a deconstructivist line of reasoning that has crossovers into other Postmodernist theory and philosophy such as Foucault’s. The comments, which are worth reading, even brought up Sapir / Whorf as an analogous subject.
dang 12y ago
A dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756.
Pitarou 12y ago
If people will forgive my earlier joke, I have a more serious critique: While feminist theory may have a contribution to make, it's not at the level the author is talking about. The author refers to core language paradigms: functional, object oriented, and so on. But these are hard engineering trade offs, not malleable social theories. Language designers will continue to actively explore the design space, and they may look to many sources for inspiration, including feminism, but that's a long way from being able to say, "This programming language has a core feminist paradigm." I think, if feminist theory has a place in programming language design, it's in the human aspects. The user interface, the surface syntax, and so on.
Grue3 12y ago
In order to create Feminist Programming Language, one must first create Feminist Math.

7 points by foolrush 12y ago

Well, women are good at typing and keeping things organised, so I guess they could be trained to operate tabulating machines. (It was just a joke. Please don't hurt me.)

dang 12y ago
Please don't make that sort of joke here.
- Pitarou 12y ago
  Yup. Um. I'll show myself out, shall I?

Lazare 12y ago

Non-mobile link, if anyone cares: http://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/feminism-and-programming-languages http://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/femin... It's been discussed and linked around here many times, eg, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756 My view, for what its worth, is that she's asking good and valuable questions. We do have different programming paradigms, and those paradigms do shape how we solve problems, and even what problems we can solve, and it is very possible that a different viewpoint could stumble on a very different paradigm. There's a long history of outsiders making valuable contributions to programming and computer science. ...that being said, I rather doubt she's going to get far. The odds of someone doing a bit of research and coming up with something like functional programming or lambda calculus (which as I understand it is more or less what she wants to do) is effectively nil, no matter who you are. But I wish her the best of luck.

Stratoscope 12y ago

> In the scope of my research, a feminist programming language is to be built around a non-normative paradigm that represents alternative ways of abstracting. The intent is to encourage and allow new ways of thinking about problems such that we can code using a feminist ideology... > The idea came about while discussing normative and feminist subject object theory. I realized that object oriented programmed reifies normative subject object theory. This led me to wonder what a feminist programming language would look like, one that might allow you to create entanglements (Karen Barad Posthumanist Performativity). Somebody please tell me, is this like the Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity, or is it serious? This is actually a sincere question. My first reaction was that this must be a parody. What in the world would it mean to code using any kind of ideology? "I believe strongly in this principle, therefore my code is correct!" That's what it sounds like to me. But maybe there is something I missed entirely. If so, please enlighten me!

foolrush 12y ago
It is serious. It is a deconstructivist line of reasoning that has crossovers into other Postmodernist theory and philosophy such as Foucault’s. The comments, which are worth reading, even brought up Sapir / Whorf as an analogous subject.

dang 12y ago

A dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6893756.

Pitarou 12y ago

If people will forgive my earlier joke, I have a more serious critique: While feminist theory may have a contribution to make, it's not at the level the author is talking about. The author refers to core language paradigms: functional, object oriented, and so on. But these are hard engineering trade offs, not malleable social theories. Language designers will continue to actively explore the design space, and they may look to many sources for inspiration, including feminism, but that's a long way from being able to say, "This programming language has a core feminist paradigm." I think, if feminist theory has a place in programming language design, it's in the human aspects. The user interface, the surface syntax, and so on.

Grue3 12y ago

In order to create Feminist Programming Language, one must first create Feminist Math.