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I'm from Ireland. Our level of cycling and accommodation of such in law and infrastructure is certainly far better than the US but also far worse than, say, the

I'm from Ireland. Our level of cycling and accommodation of such in law and infrastructure is certainly far better than the US but also far worse than, say, the Netherlands or Denmark (who are exemplary in this respect (and many others)). I come across these kinds of arguments a lot on boards.ie (Irelands main internet forum) and in general public discourse. What I find interesting in these kinds of arguments/discussion is, basically, how bigoted people are, without realising it. In almost all cases I have seen, people who cycle are in favour of cyclists rights, poeple who drive are in favour of drivers rights, people who do both are in favour of a compromise. Very rarely do you see any impartial evidence based assertions on the matter. All of you here: Read back your comment and think about that, are you biased?

zobzu 12y ago
im a cyclist i dont own a car i commute to work by bike and bike several hours on the weekend i disagree with the pro cyclist stuff like not stopping at red light. its stupid imo. :)
dustcoin 12y ago
I use a mix of driving, biking, walking and public transit to get around, and don't commute via car, so I should have a fairly neutral view. That said, I find that the cyclists come across as the most irrational and biased in these discussions. In Seattle, I've found a cyclist approaching an intersection is at least 10-100x as likely to dangerously run through a red light or ignore a stop sign than someone in a car. When cars run red lights, it tends to be within 1 second after the light was yellow. Cyclists will blow through without slowing at any time they please. I can safely claim that cyclists are at least an order of magnitude more likely to blatantly violate traffic laws than drivers are, and the argument that "drivers are just as bad as cyclists" holds zero weight to me.
- shkkmo 12y ago
  > I can safety claim that cyclists are at least an order of magnitude more likely to blatantly violate traffic laws than drivers are, and the argument that "drivers are just as bad as cyclists" holds zero weight to me. Except that the most commonly, blatantly violated traffic law is the speed limit. This is one that is almost never violated by bicyclists.
revelation 12y ago
I'm certainly biased (as we all are), but there are very simple ground truths in this discussion. The biggest statistical killers are motorized vehicles. They are the overwhelming factor in any kind of car-on-X collision. This is a directly intuitive result of their weight and power. As such, any policy must concentrate on the risk that radiates from them if it wants to be effective in controlling injuries and fatalities.

zobzu 12y ago

im a cyclist i dont own a car i commute to work by bike and bike several hours on the weekend i disagree with the pro cyclist stuff like not stopping at red light. its stupid imo. :)

dustcoin 12y ago

I use a mix of driving, biking, walking and public transit to get around, and don't commute via car, so I should have a fairly neutral view. That said, I find that the cyclists come across as the most irrational and biased in these discussions. In Seattle, I've found a cyclist approaching an intersection is at least 10-100x as likely to dangerously run through a red light or ignore a stop sign than someone in a car. When cars run red lights, it tends to be within 1 second after the light was yellow. Cyclists will blow through without slowing at any time they please. I can safely claim that cyclists are at least an order of magnitude more likely to blatantly violate traffic laws than drivers are, and the argument that "drivers are just as bad as cyclists" holds zero weight to me.

shkkmo 12y ago
> I can safety claim that cyclists are at least an order of magnitude more likely to blatantly violate traffic laws than drivers are, and the argument that "drivers are just as bad as cyclists" holds zero weight to me. Except that the most commonly, blatantly violated traffic law is the speed limit. This is one that is almost never violated by bicyclists.

revelation 12y ago

I'm certainly biased (as we all are), but there are very simple ground truths in this discussion. The biggest statistical killers are motorized vehicles. They are the overwhelming factor in any kind of car-on-X collision. This is a directly intuitive result of their weight and power. As such, any policy must concentrate on the risk that radiates from them if it wants to be effective in controlling injuries and fatalities.