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If cyclists want to ride on the roads that are predominantly used by cars they should have to follow the same traffic laws as cars so they are as predictable as

If cyclists want to ride on the roads that are predominantly used by cars they should have to follow the same traffic laws as cars so they are as predictable as cars. Pedestrians walking on the road have a strict set of rules to keep everyone safe. Alternatively, they should be barred from riding on roads and have their own rules which would make them equally predictable. Northern Virginia has some of the worst drivers I've seen anywhere in the country but you can predict that they're going to run a red light up until 5 seconds after it's changed or that they're going to race past a line of stopped cars and try to cut into an exit at the last moment while texting. Cyclists here are a completely different breed and are in no way predictable. I've seen them riding into on-coming traffic, ditch off a road onto a sidewalk to cross an intersection only to jump back onto the road after the intersection. I've seen more near misses with pedestrians in cross walks and cars making a right on red than I can possibly count. Because they don't consistently follow any rules whatsoever they're dangerous and the majority of them have an holier than thou attitude because they're not ruining the environment. They're just ruining every driver and pedestrian's commute.

toufka 12y ago
> Because they don't consistently follow any rules whatsoever they're dangerous and the majority of them have an holier than thou attitude because they're not ruining the environment. They're just ruining every driver and pedestrian's commute. I think a more generous reading of the situation is that there is no generic norm for how cyclists should act. They don't actually know how to best act. They are not cars. They are not pedestrians. Laws themselves are both inconsistent and unnatural between various cities (precisely because there is no generic norm for cyclists...). It's no so much that bikes should conform to rules which make no sense, but that the larger complex of cities as a whole should adapt to the fact that bikes have become part of their character. There needs to be predictability, certainly, but you're not going to get that by forcing bikes to act like vehicles that they are not.
- cwisecarver 12y ago
  I'd be perfectly fine with them having a set of rules they follow assuming the vast majority followed them and the ones that didn't were ticketed just as drivers or pedestrians would be.
  - vetrom 12y ago
    You know... I'd be fine with that as long as other vehicles also got regularly ticketed when they flagrantly violate the right-of-way of bicycles following road rules as defined by $JURISDICITON. The last time I saw that was....... never. If you are going to make an argument for the rule of law, it does have to be applied as a whole, not just to the groups you hate. If that sounds so unpalatable, perhaps the law needs to be changed. That is the case which this article is making.
    - cwisecarver 12y ago
      Other vehicles not getting ticketed for violations has absolutely nothing to do with this. If LE isn't doing it's job, then it's not doing it's job regardless of the mode of transport. The article is about laws directed at cyclists not being logical. It rings a little hollow when the subject of the article can't follow the laws they already have. For whatever it's worth, I don't hate cyclists. I have a bike that I ride around neighborhood streets and through local parks for recreation. I don't ride it on highly-traveled roads or as a transportation device because I think I'd be impeding motorized vehicles and I'd really rather not be killed.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
acheron 12y ago
As a fellow N. Virginian, I've found it's pretty easy to tell who the bad drivers are: they're the ones with the license plates that say "Maryland".
- cwisecarver 12y ago
  Or Diplomat

toufka 12y ago

> Because they don't consistently follow any rules whatsoever they're dangerous and the majority of them have an holier than thou attitude because they're not ruining the environment. They're just ruining every driver and pedestrian's commute. I think a more generous reading of the situation is that there is no generic norm for how cyclists should act. They don't actually know how to best act. They are not cars. They are not pedestrians. Laws themselves are both inconsistent and unnatural between various cities (precisely because there is no generic norm for cyclists...). It's no so much that bikes should conform to rules which make no sense, but that the larger complex of cities as a whole should adapt to the fact that bikes have become part of their character. There needs to be predictability, certainly, but you're not going to get that by forcing bikes to act like vehicles that they are not.

cwisecarver 12y ago
I'd be perfectly fine with them having a set of rules they follow assuming the vast majority followed them and the ones that didn't were ticketed just as drivers or pedestrians would be.
- vetrom 12y ago
  You know... I'd be fine with that as long as other vehicles also got regularly ticketed when they flagrantly violate the right-of-way of bicycles following road rules as defined by $JURISDICITON. The last time I saw that was....... never. If you are going to make an argument for the rule of law, it does have to be applied as a whole, not just to the groups you hate. If that sounds so unpalatable, perhaps the law needs to be changed. That is the case which this article is making.
  - cwisecarver 12y ago
    Other vehicles not getting ticketed for violations has absolutely nothing to do with this. If LE isn't doing it's job, then it's not doing it's job regardless of the mode of transport. The article is about laws directed at cyclists not being logical. It rings a little hollow when the subject of the article can't follow the laws they already have. For whatever it's worth, I don't hate cyclists. I have a bike that I ride around neighborhood streets and through local parks for recreation. I don't ride it on highly-traveled roads or as a transportation device because I think I'd be impeding motorized vehicles and I'd really rather not be killed.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

acheron 12y ago

As a fellow N. Virginian, I've found it's pretty easy to tell who the bad drivers are: they're the ones with the license plates that say "Maryland".

cwisecarver 12y ago
Or Diplomat