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> Uh, please read the methodology of the linked article. Those aren't direct tax subsidies. It's a made-up number based on effective tax rates below 35%. By you

> Uh, please read the methodology of the linked article. Those aren't direct tax subsidies. It's a made-up number based on effective tax rates below 35%. By your logic, the government is heavily subsidizing Apple & Google, which pay much less than the 35% rate. Fine, we'll use your definitions. That's cool. > Sweden putting in $900 million is like the U.S. putting in $27 billion. http://www.pcworld.com/article/242713/fcc_votes_to_end_telephone_subsidies_shift_to_broadband.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/242713/fcc_votes_to_end_telep... "The FCC will cap the broadband fund at US$4.5 billion a year, the current budget of the USF high-cost program, funded by a tax on telephone bills." Over 6 years. 4.5 * 6=27 billion What is your next objection? > They're not. Utility infrastructure in the U.S. barely gets enough investment to keep it operation, much less keep up with technological development: http://geospatial.blogs.com/geospatial/2011/12/asce-report-o... http://geospatial.blogs.com/geospatial/2011/12/asce-report-o.... Moving goal posts by switching to publicly owned water infrastructure isn't valid. Privately owned utilities. Like these: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/industries/143/index.html http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/indus... An example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exelon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exelon Exelon: ~2.5 billion net on ~55 billion assets Comcast: ~6.8 billion net on ~158 billion assets And like any other market, Exelon isn't having trouble turning a profit from regulation but is losing money due to its own fuckups for failing to accurately predict what forms of energy are cheapest: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-09/business/ct-exelon-closing-nuclear-plants-0308-biz-20140309_1_quad-cities-plant-byron-plant-exelon http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-09/business/ct-ex... I'm sorry, but we just have to agree to disagree. Or are you planning to change goalposts?

rayiner 12y ago
> Fine, we'll use your definitions. That's cool. Under your definition, Apple received an $18 billion subsidy between 2009-2011. What did the public get in return for that subsidy? Is that a dumb question? Yes, because your definition of subsidy makes no sense. > http://www.pcworld.com/article/242713/fcc_votes_to_end_telep.. http://www.pcworld.com/article/242713/fcc_votes_to_end_telep.... "The FCC will cap the broadband fund at US$4.5 billion a year, the current budget of the USF high-cost program, funded by a tax on telephone bills." Over 6 years. USF is not a subsidy to the telecom industry, because it is funded by a tax on the industry. It just shifts money from certain telecom customers to others. > And like any other market, Exelon isn't having trouble turning a profit from regulation Excelon is a terrible example of utilities turning a profit, because it really isn't one. When the energy industry was deregulated, the regulated electric monopoly in Illinois, Commonwealth Edison, divested itself of its generation capacity. This entity became Excelon, and it is not regulated S a public utility the way ComEd is.

rayiner 12y ago

> Fine, we'll use your definitions. That's cool. Under your definition, Apple received an $18 billion subsidy between 2009-2011. What did the public get in return for that subsidy? Is that a dumb question? Yes, because your definition of subsidy makes no sense. > http://www.pcworld.com/article/242713/fcc_votes_to_end_telep.. http://www.pcworld.com/article/242713/fcc_votes_to_end_telep.... "The FCC will cap the broadband fund at US$4.5 billion a year, the current budget of the USF high-cost program, funded by a tax on telephone bills." Over 6 years. USF is not a subsidy to the telecom industry, because it is funded by a tax on the industry. It just shifts money from certain telecom customers to others. > And like any other market, Exelon isn't having trouble turning a profit from regulation Excelon is a terrible example of utilities turning a profit, because it really isn't one. When the energy industry was deregulated, the regulated electric monopoly in Illinois, Commonwealth Edison, divested itself of its generation capacity. This entity became Excelon, and it is not regulated S a public utility the way ComEd is.