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Well, Gladio was an "official" secret army started by the NATO, but in this case, a bunch of veterans got together to form a secret army with no supervision at

by _ak 12y ago

Well, Gladio was an "official" secret army started by the NATO, but in this case, a bunch of veterans got together to form a secret army with no supervision at all. Only in 1951, the German BND resp. its predecessor organization, Organisation Gehlen, is instructed to observe and control them. Organisation Gehlen started as a German CIA unit with former Wehrmacht and SS officers. It is a prime example how the old Nazi elites were essentially still in control after World War 2, and how they could essentially do as they place.

stcredzero 12y ago
"old Nazi elites?" It's my understanding that the Nazis were "young turks" in their day who usurped power from an older military class elite. Of course, internal politics in the face of being on the losing side of a war and occupation by foreign powers probably resulted in the subsumption/unification of those groups into one after WWII. I don't feel easy with the vilification of patriotism. Such feelings grow from the natural instincts of people who feel affinity with those from their own culture and who wish to defend their homes. Any harm done happens when sociopaths exploit such feelings for their own cruel ambitions. (Yes, some xenophobia is also involved, which must be counteracted through education.)
- watwut 12y ago
  Hitler was 44 at the time he took power, so not a youngster. Many original nazis fought in WWI, so they easily could count as old old Nazi elite by the time WWII ended.
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    "Young Turk" is figurative. He also wasn't a Turk.
- _ak 12y ago
  "Old Nazi elites" as in the elites of the old Nazi Germany system that managed to stay on top of the new system, keep up their networks, and stay in relatively powerful positions.
- pjc50 12y ago
  Nazi apologia on HN? Seriouly?
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    Is this "Nazi apologia?" Seriously? Or are people knee-jerking when they see text including "Nazi" that isn't one dimensionally negative throughout. Please point out the text that is apologizing for their behavior. I am only dispassionately discussing the details of of who they were and their social context. It's not the comic book evil of the Nazis that is the most striking thing about that whole sad chapter of human history. It's the banality. We're much better served by thinking of them as people and seeing the details of how they got the world into horrific war than to merely caricature them. We're much better served by taking history's lessons to heart and acknowledging our own horrible potential.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]

by _ak 12y ago

stcredzero 12y ago

"old Nazi elites?" It's my understanding that the Nazis were "young turks" in their day who usurped power from an older military class elite. Of course, internal politics in the face of being on the losing side of a war and occupation by foreign powers probably resulted in the subsumption/unification of those groups into one after WWII. I don't feel easy with the vilification of patriotism. Such feelings grow from the natural instincts of people who feel affinity with those from their own culture and who wish to defend their homes. Any harm done happens when sociopaths exploit such feelings for their own cruel ambitions. (Yes, some xenophobia is also involved, which must be counteracted through education.)

watwut 12y ago
Hitler was 44 at the time he took power, so not a youngster. Many original nazis fought in WWI, so they easily could count as old old Nazi elite by the time WWII ended.
- stcredzero 12y ago
  "Young Turk" is figurative. He also wasn't a Turk.
_ak 12y ago
"Old Nazi elites" as in the elites of the old Nazi Germany system that managed to stay on top of the new system, keep up their networks, and stay in relatively powerful positions.
pjc50 12y ago
Nazi apologia on HN? Seriouly?
- stcredzero 12y ago
  Is this "Nazi apologia?" Seriously? Or are people knee-jerking when they see text including "Nazi" that isn't one dimensionally negative throughout. Please point out the text that is apologizing for their behavior. I am only dispassionately discussing the details of of who they were and their social context. It's not the comic book evil of the Nazis that is the most striking thing about that whole sad chapter of human history. It's the banality. We're much better served by thinking of them as people and seeing the details of how they got the world into horrific war than to merely caricature them. We're much better served by taking history's lessons to heart and acknowledging our own horrible potential.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]