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I made a motivated and reasoned argument that Islam obviously have problems with extremism -- and it is in an all or nothing approach, hard to skip parts of the

I made a motivated and reasoned argument that Islam obviously have problems with extremism -- and it is in an all or nothing approach, hard to skip parts of the craziness. I didn't argue that even the majority of muslims in the West are extremists, in e.g. Bosnia they had modern Islam. (But do check statistics in different countries about antisemitism, homophobia, etc. Also, see support for AlQ, before they started to kill too many muslims. Or the high number of votes for religious parties in many/most muslim countries.) You answered by calling me intolerant and discussed how attitudes hurt yours/others feelings. Those aren't arguments, it is emotions. My girlfriend gets away with that, I expect better on HN. If you want to move, consider Sweden. The media there stamp Denmark and Norway as racist/fascist influenced (those are certainly on the top ten lists of most tolerant countries on the planet). The media is at the same time much, much milder about the intolerance preached in many mosques, so they have insane double standards. The Social democrat party almost put an islamist in the party board, until the media for once reacted. But don't worry, it is only religious homophobes and antisemites which are courted for votes, not right wing ones. (And yes, this comment is certainly enough to stamp me much worse than religious people refusing to shake hands with women.) You'd fit right in. But the long winter dark is painful.

fsiefken 12y ago
You indeed made a motivated and reasoned argument that Islam has problems with extremism, as I said I understand and agree with it. Perhaps there is some misunderstanding. My response - in which i wrote bigotry not intolerance (not the same) - referred to your remark to asadlionpk, not to your explanation of your remark to me - in which you explained where you were coming from. Your exposition on extremism with regard to the nature of revelation in religion is all well and good, but imo you misapply this to the statement of an individual which says s he's quite sucesful with no-interest banking based on God's law. Perhaps he's a tolerant muslim living among quite tolerant/modern muslims in which case your remarks are not appropriate to his situation. No-interest banks can operate well in a non-sharia or non-fundamentalist state, or perhaps he's a liberal jew. I am not calling you names, if so I apologize as that's not my intention. I don't see why you think my earlier comment is not a rational argument: "but it's bigotry when you suggest asadlionpk is supportive of a culture of slavery, oppression of women and hate just for his remark that he's is doing fine with following the eternal law of God in this regard." So to me it seemed you suggested that everybody who follows the laws of God (in this regard) is an extremist with your quote that asadlionpk "argue for a fundamentalist sharia state or similar" or you did not meant to suggest this but then you should have expressed it differently, imho. It's very difficult or impossible for me to read it otherwise. I am not planning or thinking about moving anywhere. I meant other people do because of the misappropriation and misunderstandings about religion and culture. The political double standards you speak of also exist here, fortunately the media at times pierces through these double standards. Perhaps you don't expect it but I respect your comment and I've no reason to stamp you or call you names because of that. I even sympathize with it. I also have no problem with people refusing to shake hands with women on religious grounds unless it's a sign of disrespect. You can respect people and not giving them a hand, just as much as you can practice non-interest banking and participate in a moderate religious way of life.
- BugBrother 12y ago
  >> I also have no problem with people refusing to shake hands with women on religious grounds unless it's a sign of disrespect. Uhm, my explicit point here is that if the muslims have some of the weird stuff they'll usually have the whole package. To be clear -- it seems needed -- if someone isn't shaking hands with women then they will almost certainly have lots of attitudes which would make a non-moslem in Sweden almost burned today... I have no problems with that burning, except the disgusting double standards for different people. The politically correct hypocrisy is even racist -- "those brown can't do better, don't hold them to the same standards as real people". (A note: What the Swedish politically correct idiots I talked about lack, is a sense of history -- 150-200 years ago the state church in Sweden was as tolerant as the islamists, including most of the weird stuff. Like e.g. not tolerating peiple leaving the religion and forbidding prophylactics. This is totally forgotten now.)

fsiefken 12y ago

You indeed made a motivated and reasoned argument that Islam has problems with extremism, as I said I understand and agree with it. Perhaps there is some misunderstanding. My response - in which i wrote bigotry not intolerance (not the same) - referred to your remark to asadlionpk, not to your explanation of your remark to me - in which you explained where you were coming from. Your exposition on extremism with regard to the nature of revelation in religion is all well and good, but imo you misapply this to the statement of an individual which says s he's quite sucesful with no-interest banking based on God's law. Perhaps he's a tolerant muslim living among quite tolerant/modern muslims in which case your remarks are not appropriate to his situation. No-interest banks can operate well in a non-sharia or non-fundamentalist state, or perhaps he's a liberal jew. I am not calling you names, if so I apologize as that's not my intention. I don't see why you think my earlier comment is not a rational argument: "but it's bigotry when you suggest asadlionpk is supportive of a culture of slavery, oppression of women and hate just for his remark that he's is doing fine with following the eternal law of God in this regard." So to me it seemed you suggested that everybody who follows the laws of God (in this regard) is an extremist with your quote that asadlionpk "argue for a fundamentalist sharia state or similar" or you did not meant to suggest this but then you should have expressed it differently, imho. It's very difficult or impossible for me to read it otherwise. I am not planning or thinking about moving anywhere. I meant other people do because of the misappropriation and misunderstandings about religion and culture. The political double standards you speak of also exist here, fortunately the media at times pierces through these double standards. Perhaps you don't expect it but I respect your comment and I've no reason to stamp you or call you names because of that. I even sympathize with it. I also have no problem with people refusing to shake hands with women on religious grounds unless it's a sign of disrespect. You can respect people and not giving them a hand, just as much as you can practice non-interest banking and participate in a moderate religious way of life.

BugBrother 12y ago
>> I also have no problem with people refusing to shake hands with women on religious grounds unless it's a sign of disrespect. Uhm, my explicit point here is that if the muslims have some of the weird stuff they'll usually have the whole package. To be clear -- it seems needed -- if someone isn't shaking hands with women then they will almost certainly have lots of attitudes which would make a non-moslem in Sweden almost burned today... I have no problems with that burning, except the disgusting double standards for different people. The politically correct hypocrisy is even racist -- "those brown can't do better, don't hold them to the same standards as real people". (A note: What the Swedish politically correct idiots I talked about lack, is a sense of history -- 150-200 years ago the state church in Sweden was as tolerant as the islamists, including most of the weird stuff. Like e.g. not tolerating peiple leaving the religion and forbidding prophylactics. This is totally forgotten now.)