6 ms·

Ask HN: Entrepreneurs/hackers with children

10 points by l33tbro 12y ago

How does having a family affect your value structure? Does it replace your other baby (start-up, open source project) or just inspire you to do better?

wilsonfiifi 12y ago
I think it depends on how young your 'babies' are. They will both require a lot of your time so if you are trying to be that super star dad, husband, entrepreneur, you'll burn yourself out quite quickly. You just have to prioritize and live with your choices IMHO.
jasonkester 12y ago
It's tough, but doable. Kids take up a lot more time. Partially because they need looking after, but mostly because they're so much fun. You want to spend all your time playing with them, teaching them things, or even just staring at them. It's a big (but very good) time sink. And your outlook on money changes. I remember the month way back when, when my SaaS profit first hit $600/month. "I can live off this!" Sure, you have to live kinda cheaply but a fella can scrape by on not much money, particularly if you're travelling in a cheap country. But not now. My kids are not going to scrape by on ramen and crash on couches with me. We need houses, savings, and other grown-up things. And, sadly, that costs money. For that, you either need to 10X the old dirtbag revenues or take a contract gig. You can see how it might spiral out of control if you're not careful. Take a job to supplement the business revenue, end up starving the business for time, while still not seeing the kids as much as you want. It takes some balancing. But it's all doable. And the hard bit is transient. Once your business is ticking away well enough to not require a side-gig or take up 40 hours of your time each week, you'll find yourself chasing the kids around the lawn on a sunny Tuesday afternoon, knowing that you don't have to head back to "the office" at all that day if you don't feel like it. Definitely worth it in the end. Good luck!
- dennisgorelik 12y ago
  Kids are fun ... in moderation. After all kids are inexperienced, don't know much, making mistakes ... > My kids are not going to scrape by on ramen Why not? The less they have, the more they value work.
tptacek 12y ago
There isn't a high-pressure career you can choose that is friendlier to families than startup entrepreneurship, at least in the common case. I'd like to do what I can to end the myth that families and startups are incompatible. Consider: Biglaw is full of men and women associates who are having their first child. Compare the work for a biglaw associate and a startup: * The associate might have up to 50% travel, which is rigidly scheduled * Both the associate and the entrepreneur expect to work more than 60 hours a week. * But the associate is formally required to work 60+ hour weeks, and the entrepreneur merely averages 60+ hour weeks. * The associate spends the majority of their working time at a prescribed office working in person with other associates and partners. The tech entrepreneur not only expects to be able to work from home often, but their team might not even be colocated with them at all. * The associate's day is spent in face-to-face meetings, often with clients, which can't be scheduled at their convenience. The same is true of Big 4 accountants, management consultants, don't get me started on investment bankers, and I'd imagine the bullets for medical residents would shoot all the way down the page. I'm not even convinced that startup entrepreneurship is the hardest job on families in tech. For instance: thousands of people in the tech industry work as pre-sales engineers, and have 30-50% travel burdens.
- patio11 12y ago
  I see your pre-sales engineer and raise you an entire office full of Japanese salarymen. M-san once came up to me at 7 PM and apologized profusely for having to leave early. "It's my little boy's birthday and, you know, we've been in crunch for the last 4 months and I only see him on Sundays [+], so I really wanted to make it this year." Seriously. Actually happened. [+] Edit for clarity: No, this is not because M-san and his wife are divorced. This is because M-san was routinely working during substantially all of his son's waking hours Monday through Saturday.
  - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
    Sorry to pick up the thread so late, but isn't this horrifically damaging to family structure in Japan? If the general idea that absent father hurt / damage kids is right is to this just creating generation(s) of damage? isn't there pushback?
gregcohn 12y ago
The essence of doing a startup efficiently is learning how to get leverage on your time. Having a family makes that non-optional from a company point of view, and you have to learn to find the ways to get similar leverage on a family front. Maybe you want to be there for bedtimes but don't mind a nanny doing the driving to school, for example.
sharmi 12y ago
An explorer on the entrepreneurship road, it is my children who gave form to what was just an abstract idea. The desire to be there for my kids deems necessary that I be my own master. Plus I love the freedom to generally work on what I love. Of course, this is not possible without the support of my spouse and his job :) Also, time will always be a constraint. You need to be very focused and prioritize well. Distractions have greater penalties. Currently the kids are toddlers and I basically get only 2 hours of solid work a day. But there is so much one can accomplish if one stays focused.
dennisgorelik 12y ago
Children + business is quite doable, but it usually means there is not that much outside of these two activities in life. Which is totally fine.

10 points by l33tbro 12y ago

How does having a family affect your value structure? Does it replace your other baby (start-up, open source project) or just inspire you to do better?

wilsonfiifi 12y ago

I think it depends on how young your 'babies' are. They will both require a lot of your time so if you are trying to be that super star dad, husband, entrepreneur, you'll burn yourself out quite quickly. You just have to prioritize and live with your choices IMHO.

jasonkester 12y ago

It's tough, but doable. Kids take up a lot more time. Partially because they need looking after, but mostly because they're so much fun. You want to spend all your time playing with them, teaching them things, or even just staring at them. It's a big (but very good) time sink. And your outlook on money changes. I remember the month way back when, when my SaaS profit first hit $600/month. "I can live off this!" Sure, you have to live kinda cheaply but a fella can scrape by on not much money, particularly if you're travelling in a cheap country. But not now. My kids are not going to scrape by on ramen and crash on couches with me. We need houses, savings, and other grown-up things. And, sadly, that costs money. For that, you either need to 10X the old dirtbag revenues or take a contract gig. You can see how it might spiral out of control if you're not careful. Take a job to supplement the business revenue, end up starving the business for time, while still not seeing the kids as much as you want. It takes some balancing. But it's all doable. And the hard bit is transient. Once your business is ticking away well enough to not require a side-gig or take up 40 hours of your time each week, you'll find yourself chasing the kids around the lawn on a sunny Tuesday afternoon, knowing that you don't have to head back to "the office" at all that day if you don't feel like it. Definitely worth it in the end. Good luck!

dennisgorelik 12y ago
Kids are fun ... in moderation. After all kids are inexperienced, don't know much, making mistakes ... > My kids are not going to scrape by on ramen Why not? The less they have, the more they value work.

tptacek 12y ago

There isn't a high-pressure career you can choose that is friendlier to families than startup entrepreneurship, at least in the common case. I'd like to do what I can to end the myth that families and startups are incompatible. Consider: Biglaw is full of men and women associates who are having their first child. Compare the work for a biglaw associate and a startup: * The associate might have up to 50% travel, which is rigidly scheduled * Both the associate and the entrepreneur expect to work more than 60 hours a week. * But the associate is formally required to work 60+ hour weeks, and the entrepreneur merely averages 60+ hour weeks. * The associate spends the majority of their working time at a prescribed office working in person with other associates and partners. The tech entrepreneur not only expects to be able to work from home often, but their team might not even be colocated with them at all. * The associate's day is spent in face-to-face meetings, often with clients, which can't be scheduled at their convenience. The same is true of Big 4 accountants, management consultants, don't get me started on investment bankers, and I'd imagine the bullets for medical residents would shoot all the way down the page. I'm not even convinced that startup entrepreneurship is the hardest job on families in tech. For instance: thousands of people in the tech industry work as pre-sales engineers, and have 30-50% travel burdens.

patio11 12y ago
I see your pre-sales engineer and raise you an entire office full of Japanese salarymen. M-san once came up to me at 7 PM and apologized profusely for having to leave early. "It's my little boy's birthday and, you know, we've been in crunch for the last 4 months and I only see him on Sundays [+], so I really wanted to make it this year." Seriously. Actually happened. [+] Edit for clarity: No, this is not because M-san and his wife are divorced. This is because M-san was routinely working during substantially all of his son's waking hours Monday through Saturday.
- lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  Sorry to pick up the thread so late, but isn't this horrifically damaging to family structure in Japan? If the general idea that absent father hurt / damage kids is right is to this just creating generation(s) of damage? isn't there pushback?

gregcohn 12y ago

The essence of doing a startup efficiently is learning how to get leverage on your time. Having a family makes that non-optional from a company point of view, and you have to learn to find the ways to get similar leverage on a family front. Maybe you want to be there for bedtimes but don't mind a nanny doing the driving to school, for example.

sharmi 12y ago

An explorer on the entrepreneurship road, it is my children who gave form to what was just an abstract idea. The desire to be there for my kids deems necessary that I be my own master. Plus I love the freedom to generally work on what I love. Of course, this is not possible without the support of my spouse and his job :) Also, time will always be a constraint. You need to be very focused and prioritize well. Distractions have greater penalties. Currently the kids are toddlers and I basically get only 2 hours of solid work a day. But there is so much one can accomplish if one stays focused.

dennisgorelik 12y ago

Children + business is quite doable, but it usually means there is not that much outside of these two activities in life. Which is totally fine.