5 ms·

Is it just me, or does the Ruby community go in for cults of personality considerably more than others?

by gdp 17y ago

wynand 17y ago
Perhaps, although I don't think that to be the case here. For me, the _why persona was a little beacon that radiated the message: "you can make cool stuff and have fun regardless of your circumstances". That's a nice contrast to the dreariness of so much of the IT world on the one hand and the (often justified, but still depressing) rants about the evils of the IT world on the other hand.
- gdp 17y ago
  But the tone of this entire thread is suggesting that somebody who wrote a bit of Ruby code is some sort of creative visionary! He may be a very talented programmer, but let's keep things in proportion. This idea that someone can be a big star in the Ruby world for doing not-very-much is a bit bizarre to me. I'm reading this as a complete outsider, and trying to find the source of this level of adulation is difficult at best. I assume it's a community-centric thing, where someone outside of the community wouldn't "get it". It all just seems so bizarrely self-congratulatory. And what do you mean "regardless of your circumstances"? What do we know about his circumstances that would convey that message?
  - jeresig 17y ago
    You're grossly over-simplifying this man's life. Personally, I'm not a part of the Ruby community, nor do I write any apprecible quantity of Ruby code. However, _why's ability to code, write, draw, and generally produce art greatly inspired me. I hope some effort goes toward collecting his works so that you too can be inspired.
    - gdp 17y ago
      But it is eulogizing someone who isn't dead! After 1 day of inactivity! I feel very inspired by the works of Salman Rushdie. He hasn't published anything for a few days - should we eulogize him on HN too? I'm not over simplifying the man or his life - I'm suggesting that this is absurd way to react!
      - stephencelis 17y ago
        It's one thing to be inactive for a day, it's another to drastically truncate your online existence.
        gdp 17y ago
        So what? I understand that it's considered a "big thing" by people who spend a considerable amount of energy cultivating an online persona, but I have trouble believing this is actually as big of a deal as it is being made out to be. I can think of two reasons for such an action: 1) Generally being "done" with that particular identity or community, and having lost interest to the point where the effort required to maintain it was disproportionate with the enjoyment or self-aggrandisement derived from it. If this is the case, then eulogising and lamenting and celebrating is misplaced: Perhaps introspection would be a better reaction - asking, "what is wrong with the community such that a high-profile member no longer wants to be a part of it?"; or 2) Some kind of personal or mental problems that have precipitated this, in which case, the value of maintaining an online profile is probably just less than the perceived value from removing all traces of an online presence. Or alternatively, any number of explanations to do with hackers or vandalism could be in play too. I just think the response has been totally disproportional to the event, at least until more information is available.
        carbon8 17y ago
        "what is wrong with the community" This communities in this case would be the entire online and open source communities.
  - torpor 17y ago
    While I concur that the Cult of Personality problem is pretty high in the Ruby world, I would like to say that I'm not a Ruby programmer, and really wasn't very interested in Ruby at all .. until I encountered _why's "shoooes" project. I had so much fun reading that document on shoes that I really thought to myself "okay, time to get up on this ruby stuff" .. and was just about to launch into a few hours of tutorial and study, just a few minutes before I read that _whys' stuff had all been deleted. Darn. What a shame. Guess I'm not gonna learn Ruby now. On a lighter side, for some reason Ruby reminds me of "The Mighty Boosh" .. its supposed to be great, amazing, and all the younger kids are into it, but when I actually sit down and try to comprehend "why?" (no pun intended), its just a big fat meh.
  - carbon8 17y ago
    "But the tone of this entire thread is suggesting that somebody who wrote a bit of Ruby code is some sort of creative visionary!" No, people are saying that a remarkably unique artist/hacker is a creative visionary, which he is. "I'm reading this as a complete outsider" Outsider to what? Creative work?
    - gdp 17y ago
      > No, people are saying that a remarkably unique artist/hacker is a creative visionary, which he is. That's very subjective. And I was claiming to be an outsider to the Ruby community, which this entire thread appears to be centred around.
      - carbon8 17y ago
        "That's very subjective." No, taste is subjective. That _why is unique, a hacker, an artist and creative is not. "And I was claiming to be an outsider to the Ruby community" Yeah, hence why I'm highlighting the inanity of your insistence on viewing his work through the prism of "Ruby" rather than for what it is: creative code in multiple languages including one he invented, artwork, music, books and commentary on making programming more accessible and fun.
        gdp 17y ago
        Right. I disagree, but I'm going to stop contributing to this thread. Apparently you get down-modded for speaking ill of the dead.
      - pygy 17y ago
        The hacker side of the sentence is not debatable. He wrote a graphical toolkit, a sound synthesiser, an HTML parser, html template language, a language (grammar, parser, vm and jit, gc, ...), and many other software projects on his own. All of these are a joy to use. They are not only well though out technically (and it's an euphemisim), their APIs are excellent and often fun to use, and they are wonderfully documented. Do you know of many people who are proficient in so many domains? He also has a very personal graphic and literary style. What makes him unique is that he treated coding as an artistic medium too, and that he was able to mix his various skills to create integrated works. Can you name somebody else that would qualify for these traits? If not he's indeed a remarkably unique artist/hacker, and a creative visionary since no one had done that before.
Estragon 17y ago
Come on, they've got nothing on perl.
- gdp 17y ago
  You think? I can't say I really engage with either community, but purely as an outsider, it appears that anybody who has written any software in Ruby and published it ends up with a minor cult of celebrity, with legions of worshippers being sycophantic. OK, I could be overstating it a little, but I reckon there are people in the Ruby community who could tell me what DHH had for breakfast. Perl seems to focus its love and attention on Larry Wall himself, for the most part.

Is it just me, or does the Ruby community go in for cults of personality considerably more than others?

by gdp 17y ago

Is it just me, or does the Ruby community go in for cults of personality considerably more than others?

Perhaps, although I don't think that to be the case here. For me, the _why persona was a little beacon that radiated the message: "you can make cool stuff and have fun regardless of your circumstances". That's a nice contrast to the dreariness of so much of the IT world on the one hand and the (often justified, but still depressing) rants about the evils of the IT world on the other hand.

gdp 17y ago
But the tone of this entire thread is suggesting that somebody who wrote a bit of Ruby code is some sort of creative visionary! He may be a very talented programmer, but let's keep things in proportion. This idea that someone can be a big star in the Ruby world for doing not-very-much is a bit bizarre to me. I'm reading this as a complete outsider, and trying to find the source of this level of adulation is difficult at best. I assume it's a community-centric thing, where someone outside of the community wouldn't "get it". It all just seems so bizarrely self-congratulatory. And what do you mean "regardless of your circumstances"? What do we know about his circumstances that would convey that message?
- jeresig 17y ago
  You're grossly over-simplifying this man's life. Personally, I'm not a part of the Ruby community, nor do I write any apprecible quantity of Ruby code. However, _why's ability to code, write, draw, and generally produce art greatly inspired me. I hope some effort goes toward collecting his works so that you too can be inspired.
  - gdp 17y ago
    But it is eulogizing someone who isn't dead! After 1 day of inactivity! I feel very inspired by the works of Salman Rushdie. He hasn't published anything for a few days - should we eulogize him on HN too? I'm not over simplifying the man or his life - I'm suggesting that this is absurd way to react!
    - stephencelis 17y ago
      It's one thing to be inactive for a day, it's another to drastically truncate your online existence.
      - gdp 17y ago
        So what? I understand that it's considered a "big thing" by people who spend a considerable amount of energy cultivating an online persona, but I have trouble believing this is actually as big of a deal as it is being made out to be. I can think of two reasons for such an action: 1) Generally being "done" with that particular identity or community, and having lost interest to the point where the effort required to maintain it was disproportionate with the enjoyment or self-aggrandisement derived from it. If this is the case, then eulogising and lamenting and celebrating is misplaced: Perhaps introspection would be a better reaction - asking, "what is wrong with the community such that a high-profile member no longer wants to be a part of it?"; or 2) Some kind of personal or mental problems that have precipitated this, in which case, the value of maintaining an online profile is probably just less than the perceived value from removing all traces of an online presence. Or alternatively, any number of explanations to do with hackers or vandalism could be in play too. I just think the response has been totally disproportional to the event, at least until more information is available.
        carbon8 17y ago
        "what is wrong with the community" This communities in this case would be the entire online and open source communities.
- torpor 17y ago
  While I concur that the Cult of Personality problem is pretty high in the Ruby world, I would like to say that I'm not a Ruby programmer, and really wasn't very interested in Ruby at all .. until I encountered _why's "shoooes" project. I had so much fun reading that document on shoes that I really thought to myself "okay, time to get up on this ruby stuff" .. and was just about to launch into a few hours of tutorial and study, just a few minutes before I read that _whys' stuff had all been deleted. Darn. What a shame. Guess I'm not gonna learn Ruby now. On a lighter side, for some reason Ruby reminds me of "The Mighty Boosh" .. its supposed to be great, amazing, and all the younger kids are into it, but when I actually sit down and try to comprehend "why?" (no pun intended), its just a big fat meh.
- carbon8 17y ago
  "But the tone of this entire thread is suggesting that somebody who wrote a bit of Ruby code is some sort of creative visionary!" No, people are saying that a remarkably unique artist/hacker is a creative visionary, which he is. "I'm reading this as a complete outsider" Outsider to what? Creative work?
  - gdp 17y ago
    > No, people are saying that a remarkably unique artist/hacker is a creative visionary, which he is. That's very subjective. And I was claiming to be an outsider to the Ruby community, which this entire thread appears to be centred around.
    - carbon8 17y ago
      "That's very subjective." No, taste is subjective. That _why is unique, a hacker, an artist and creative is not. "And I was claiming to be an outsider to the Ruby community" Yeah, hence why I'm highlighting the inanity of your insistence on viewing his work through the prism of "Ruby" rather than for what it is: creative code in multiple languages including one he invented, artwork, music, books and commentary on making programming more accessible and fun.
      - gdp 17y ago
        Right. I disagree, but I'm going to stop contributing to this thread. Apparently you get down-modded for speaking ill of the dead.
    - pygy 17y ago
      The hacker side of the sentence is not debatable. He wrote a graphical toolkit, a sound synthesiser, an HTML parser, html template language, a language (grammar, parser, vm and jit, gc, ...), and many other software projects on his own. All of these are a joy to use. They are not only well though out technically (and it's an euphemisim), their APIs are excellent and often fun to use, and they are wonderfully documented. Do you know of many people who are proficient in so many domains? He also has a very personal graphic and literary style. What makes him unique is that he treated coding as an artistic medium too, and that he was able to mix his various skills to create integrated works. Can you name somebody else that would qualify for these traits? If not he's indeed a remarkably unique artist/hacker, and a creative visionary since no one had done that before.

Estragon 17y ago

Come on, they've got nothing on perl.

gdp 17y ago
You think? I can't say I really engage with either community, but purely as an outsider, it appears that anybody who has written any software in Ruby and published it ends up with a minor cult of celebrity, with legions of worshippers being sycophantic. OK, I could be overstating it a little, but I reckon there are people in the Ruby community who could tell me what DHH had for breakfast. Perl seems to focus its love and attention on Larry Wall himself, for the most part.