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Given the amount of cruft OpenGL currently carries, the massive changes (read: rewrite) that will require for it to be a sane modern graphics API and the fact t

by mikevm 12y ago

Given the amount of cruft OpenGL currently carries, the massive changes (read: rewrite) that will require for it to be a sane modern graphics API and the fact that several Khronos members that would probably not want any significant changes to the API (CAD companies, for example), wouldn't it make sense for the industry to dump OpenGL like yesterday's paper and converge behind a new, modern API? For example, AMD's Mantle.

Amadiro 12y ago
No, that would make no sense whatsoever. You seem to be somewhat misinformed about GL... * OpenGL core profile is quite clean and lean. Both apple and intel have already decided not to implement OpenGL compatibility (where all the cruft sits). There are still a few things that can and should be cleaned up, but it's pretty great already. * Adding an additional API means there will be YET another thing vendors have to support and will be able to screw up, in addition to the already existing plethora of APIs: GL, D3D, DDX/GDI, OpenCL, VDPAU [or something like it], CUDA [or something like it], OpenMAX, Mantle. OpenVG, ... -- nobody is going to drop OpenGL or D3D for something like mantle, because that'd instantly lose you all your customers. Not even AMD. * AMDs mantle (which is, as far as we know, just a specific thing to their cards and not even portable to any other cards) is not an attempt to make things more stable, but an attempt by AMD to gain more control over the market (something they are in a good position to attempt right now, as they have control of the console market) and to push into the direction of a low-level interface that is strongly tied to their hardware model. Mantle as an API is (as far as we know) even lower-level than GL and D3D, and hence not very suited for most programmers and applications -- there are a lot more things you can do wrong with it. Don't believe all the FUD you read on hackernews. The main issue with OpenGL right now is that some vendors are doing a shitty job at it, which is mainly due to the heavy influence microsoft had on the gaming industry for a long time. GL is now making a major comeback due to linux, apple and mobile platforms gaining popularity, which will help rectify these issues over time.
- mikevm 12y ago
  Thanks for schooling me :).
- joebaf 12y ago
  Mantle is also not that important on Consoles - there you have thin driver layer, so Mantle would not help that much. Probably it will disappear in some years/months.
higherpurpose 12y ago
In a way, it's already started from scratch - that's OpenGL ES. But I fear they want to "unify" the two soon such as that most of the cruft is added to OpenGL ES, too (just a presumption of mine). I think if they continue with ES on its natural path, it will simply become the default graphics APIs for billions of devices, without them doing much to push it one way or the other.
- Amadiro 12y ago
  It looks more like Desktop GL might move to mobile devices soon. nvidia seems to be pushing really hard in that direction. But it'll remain to be seen where things go.

by mikevm 12y ago

Amadiro 12y ago

No, that would make no sense whatsoever. You seem to be somewhat misinformed about GL... * OpenGL core profile is quite clean and lean. Both apple and intel have already decided not to implement OpenGL compatibility (where all the cruft sits). There are still a few things that can and should be cleaned up, but it's pretty great already. * Adding an additional API means there will be YET another thing vendors have to support and will be able to screw up, in addition to the already existing plethora of APIs: GL, D3D, DDX/GDI, OpenCL, VDPAU [or something like it], CUDA [or something like it], OpenMAX, Mantle. OpenVG, ... -- nobody is going to drop OpenGL or D3D for something like mantle, because that'd instantly lose you all your customers. Not even AMD. * AMDs mantle (which is, as far as we know, just a specific thing to their cards and not even portable to any other cards) is not an attempt to make things more stable, but an attempt by AMD to gain more control over the market (something they are in a good position to attempt right now, as they have control of the console market) and to push into the direction of a low-level interface that is strongly tied to their hardware model. Mantle as an API is (as far as we know) even lower-level than GL and D3D, and hence not very suited for most programmers and applications -- there are a lot more things you can do wrong with it. Don't believe all the FUD you read on hackernews. The main issue with OpenGL right now is that some vendors are doing a shitty job at it, which is mainly due to the heavy influence microsoft had on the gaming industry for a long time. GL is now making a major comeback due to linux, apple and mobile platforms gaining popularity, which will help rectify these issues over time.

mikevm 12y ago
Thanks for schooling me :).
joebaf 12y ago
Mantle is also not that important on Consoles - there you have thin driver layer, so Mantle would not help that much. Probably it will disappear in some years/months.

higherpurpose 12y ago

In a way, it's already started from scratch - that's OpenGL ES. But I fear they want to "unify" the two soon such as that most of the cruft is added to OpenGL ES, too (just a presumption of mine). I think if they continue with ES on its natural path, it will simply become the default graphics APIs for billions of devices, without them doing much to push it one way or the other.

Amadiro 12y ago
It looks more like Desktop GL might move to mobile devices soon. nvidia seems to be pushing really hard in that direction. But it'll remain to be seen where things go.