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I think one important point to make is not only about the amount of knowledge absorbed from lectures, but also the discipline and rigor in education. A lot of

by Morgawr 12y ago

I think one important point to make is not only about the amount of knowledge absorbed from lectures, but also the discipline and rigor in education. A lot of comments seem to hail e-learning, remote videos, recorded lectures, etc etc as the future of education, and it scares me if I have to be honest. There is a very important difference between a self-taught student and one that has undergone through formal education, and that is scientific rigor. Not to say that a self-learned person is less knowledgeable or "worse", it's obviously not true and there are always extremes, however actually attending lectures, going through the daily (and sometimes boring) routine of grinding through contents as explained in a boring way by your lecturer.. it's all part of building your determination and character as a researcher. More often than not I find self-taught people staying at a very shallow level of knowledge, broad and generic, never digging through the details, going that extra mile to properly master a subject in a structured and well-disciplined matter. In my opinion, that kind of education can only be achieved in a mentor-student relationship and, especially, through formal lectures. Even by just being around other people and interacting with the academic environment, it helps abstracting to a higher state of reasoning. PS: I only have experience in the scientific academia, not talking about other branches like arts or philosophy or whatever.

grayclhn 12y ago
I always find it educational to meet someone who lacks all of the characteristics I think are crucial for success, but is still successful. In that vein.... I probably attended fewer than 15% of all of my lectures, for every class in undergrad (I was a math major; attendance didn't magically pick up in my advanced classes either). I've also finished an MS in stats and a PhD in economics (working on econometric theory, so... basically more stats) and work as an assistant professor. Now, I'm posting on HN at 1am instead of sleeping or working, so I certainly lack discipline, but I don't think that "attending boring lectures as an undergraduate" is the magic precondition that you seem to. :)
- thesimpsons1022 12y ago
  I feel like the problem is that educational effectiveness is too much of a personal thing that it is impossible to argue about. everyone learns differently. I think it's important to note that most people are self driven enough to learn on their own. I learn a lot in lectures. other people go to lecture and goof off and then learn the material on their own later. truth is, the smart kids will usually find a way to succeed no matter how they learn. What we are trying to figure out is the best way to teach the masses. I also think it's important to consider the sheer number of people trying to get an education in modern times as opposed to the past where most students were smart, privileged kids whose parents were probably decently successful.
  - grayclhn 12y ago
    >I feel like the problem is that educational effectiveness is too much of a personal thing that it is impossible to argue about. This may be true, but I definitely like reading the range of opinions on this subject and I think it's helpful as an educator. >I think it's important to note that most people are self driven enough to learn on their own. This is sadly not true, but I'm happy that you think it is!
    - thesimpsons1022 12y ago
      sorry I meant not self driven enough. haha.

by Morgawr 12y ago

grayclhn 12y ago

I always find it educational to meet someone who lacks all of the characteristics I think are crucial for success, but is still successful. In that vein.... I probably attended fewer than 15% of all of my lectures, for every class in undergrad (I was a math major; attendance didn't magically pick up in my advanced classes either). I've also finished an MS in stats and a PhD in economics (working on econometric theory, so... basically more stats) and work as an assistant professor. Now, I'm posting on HN at 1am instead of sleeping or working, so I certainly lack discipline, but I don't think that "attending boring lectures as an undergraduate" is the magic precondition that you seem to. :)

thesimpsons1022 12y ago
I feel like the problem is that educational effectiveness is too much of a personal thing that it is impossible to argue about. everyone learns differently. I think it's important to note that most people are self driven enough to learn on their own. I learn a lot in lectures. other people go to lecture and goof off and then learn the material on their own later. truth is, the smart kids will usually find a way to succeed no matter how they learn. What we are trying to figure out is the best way to teach the masses. I also think it's important to consider the sheer number of people trying to get an education in modern times as opposed to the past where most students were smart, privileged kids whose parents were probably decently successful.
- grayclhn 12y ago
  >I feel like the problem is that educational effectiveness is too much of a personal thing that it is impossible to argue about. This may be true, but I definitely like reading the range of opinions on this subject and I think it's helpful as an educator. >I think it's important to note that most people are self driven enough to learn on their own. This is sadly not true, but I'm happy that you think it is!
  - thesimpsons1022 12y ago
    sorry I meant not self driven enough. haha.