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"A few bad teachers can't explain Newark's low graduation rates." The problem is it's not just a few it's probably a lot of really crappy teachers, principals,

by pmorici 12y ago

"A few bad teachers can't explain Newark's low graduation rates." The problem is it's not just a few it's probably a lot of really crappy teachers, principals, and administrators. Teacher unions like to use the phrase "just a few bad apples" but when you have a system that bad your're right a few doesn't explain it it's probably the whole bunch or close to it that is rotten.

TallGuyShort 12y ago
"Just a few bad apples" is a very auspicious phrase for the unions to use, given how common the phrase "one bad apple can spoil the bunch" also is.
fossuser 12y ago
Somewhat related there was an earlier comment from HN that I really liked (though don't remember who said it) - about the bad apples phrase. "In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples". It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples. Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples. Etc. What is interesting about this cliched defense is that it is actually a malformed statement of the original cliche, "A few bad apples spoil the barrel." The original cliche refers to a phenomenon where overripe or rotten apples release ethylene gas, which is a ripening agent. This ethylene gas will accelerate the ripening/rot of nearby apples. If you are not vigilant in weeding out the bad apples, the rot will rapidly spread and soon there will be no good apples left to rescue. Human "bad apples" don't release ethylene gas, but they corrupt their peers nevertheless. When a good cop backs the cover story of his corrupt cop partner, he becomes a bad cop as well. When prosecutors take up arms in defense of their corrupt prosecutor peers, they become no better than the initially targeted. If school administrators allow a bully to have his way for too long, then everybody else sees that they can get away with it too and before long you have daily fistfights behind the school at the end of the day. Institutions that have had widespread unchallenged corruption for decades rarely need keyhole surgery, they need amputations."
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
bachmeier 12y ago
Newark is not the only place with teacher unions. Why do teacher unions have so much more of a negative impact in Newark than elsewhere?
- pmorici 12y ago
  Because it is a negative reinforcement loop. Good teachers will self select and leave on their own because they can. Since Newark isn't going to be a desirable district to work in it is that much more important to actively remove bad teachers and provide incentives for the good ones to stay.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    It's not that cut-and-dried. My own high school had both very good and some rather bad teachers. The union was a stabilizing force that good teachers used to ignore everything but helping their students while the bad teachers used it to bide time until they could hit the magic year for their pensions.
    - pmorici 12y ago
      I don't think fixing the problem necessarily requires destroying the unions or just allowing school administrators to just fire people willy nilly but the problem will not be fixed unless there is a measure of accountability.
redthrowaway 12y ago
The main problem is still poverty, and you can't fix that with charter schools.

by pmorici 12y ago

TallGuyShort 12y ago

"Just a few bad apples" is a very auspicious phrase for the unions to use, given how common the phrase "one bad apple can spoil the bunch" also is.

fossuser 12y ago

Somewhat related there was an earlier comment from HN that I really liked (though don't remember who said it) - about the bad apples phrase. "In situations where accusations of widespread corruption, misconduct, unethical action, etc are made, a phrase that is often trotted out in defense of the accused is "just a few bad apples". It's not WhereEver Police Department that has an issue with racial bias and violent escalation, it's just a few bad apples. Our school district does not have a bullying problem, it's just a few bad apples. Etc. What is interesting about this cliched defense is that it is actually a malformed statement of the original cliche, "A few bad apples spoil the barrel." The original cliche refers to a phenomenon where overripe or rotten apples release ethylene gas, which is a ripening agent. This ethylene gas will accelerate the ripening/rot of nearby apples. If you are not vigilant in weeding out the bad apples, the rot will rapidly spread and soon there will be no good apples left to rescue. Human "bad apples" don't release ethylene gas, but they corrupt their peers nevertheless. When a good cop backs the cover story of his corrupt cop partner, he becomes a bad cop as well. When prosecutors take up arms in defense of their corrupt prosecutor peers, they become no better than the initially targeted. If school administrators allow a bully to have his way for too long, then everybody else sees that they can get away with it too and before long you have daily fistfights behind the school at the end of the day. Institutions that have had widespread unchallenged corruption for decades rarely need keyhole surgery, they need amputations."

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

bachmeier 12y ago

Newark is not the only place with teacher unions. Why do teacher unions have so much more of a negative impact in Newark than elsewhere?

pmorici 12y ago
Because it is a negative reinforcement loop. Good teachers will self select and leave on their own because they can. Since Newark isn't going to be a desirable district to work in it is that much more important to actively remove bad teachers and provide incentives for the good ones to stay.
- danielweber 12y ago
  It's not that cut-and-dried. My own high school had both very good and some rather bad teachers. The union was a stabilizing force that good teachers used to ignore everything but helping their students while the bad teachers used it to bide time until they could hit the magic year for their pensions.
  - pmorici 12y ago
    I don't think fixing the problem necessarily requires destroying the unions or just allowing school administrators to just fire people willy nilly but the problem will not be fixed unless there is a measure of accountability.

redthrowaway 12y ago

The main problem is still poverty, and you can't fix that with charter schools.