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"Young, energetic outsiders" in the "startup set" are disproportionately likely to also be in the set of individuals from privileged backgrounds; in America thi

"Young, energetic outsiders" in the "startup set" are disproportionately likely to also be in the set of individuals from privileged backgrounds; in America this means they're also more likely to be white and male. They haven't got the empirical foundation necessary to even comprehend the depth or scope of the problems, much less devise "ingenious" solutions to them.

Karunamon 12y ago
They haven't got the empirical foundation necessary to even comprehend the depth or scope of the problems How ironic. You write off an entire group of people because of their background as not being able to understand a problem and then throw out the privilege (AKA: "You are being preemptively blacklisted from this argument) card. In a thread about education. Seriously?
- Iftheshoefits 12y ago
  Note that "not having the background to understand a problem" isn't the same as "incapable of understanding a problem." However, having the capability and having the experience are two different things. If a group of people haven't got the background to understand a problem, they aren't likely to produce a solution that is viable. I don't see how that's a controversial statement. We "exclude" on this basis all the time in our every day lives (e.g. by selecting doctors for solutions to medical problems, as opposed to, say, firemen or physicists), because it's entirely rational and the empirically correct thing to do.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    The answer to that is to get people the background to understand a problem. People go to to med school to become doctors, you don't automatically blacklist everyone of a particular socioeconomic/racial background (NB: there's a word for this..) as being incapable of having the background necessary to be a doctor.
    - Iftheshoefits 12y ago
      Yes, and "incapable" isn't anything I suggested applied to "young, energetic" types. That was an equivalence you drew while your knee was jerking.
      - Karunamon 12y ago
        No, you merely suggested it applied to "privileged" white males.
        Iftheshoefits 12y ago
        I did no such thing. I wrote, quite explicitly, that they haven't the empirical foundation; not that they aren't capable of obtaining it.
        Karunamon 12y ago
        And even that is an unsupported assertion.
Jun8 12y ago
My point was that making a full understanding of the students' plight a prerequisite to helping them is a mistake. I teach programming to a low-income high school in the South side of Chicago. I am male and "white" and was born and raised in a different country far away in quite a different culture. I cannot even begin to understand the problems these kids are facing everyday. Yet, there I am helping them, raising money for equipment, buying them rPi's, trying to teach them Python, implementing software for their FRC robot and trying to act as an all around mentor. My cost to the CPS is negative (I bring in all the money, $1k-$2k here, from my company). This is the solution I'm talking about. Of course, my impact is minimal. But money from donors such as Zuckerberg could be used to create bigger grassroots efforts and amplify the impact greatly. Ask yourself: What is the solution that YOU suggest? Reading the thread I was only one concrete suggestions, using the $100M to open a calling center in the area. Is that the best we can do?

Karunamon 12y ago

They haven't got the empirical foundation necessary to even comprehend the depth or scope of the problems How ironic. You write off an entire group of people because of their background as not being able to understand a problem and then throw out the privilege (AKA: "You are being preemptively blacklisted from this argument) card. In a thread about education. Seriously?

Iftheshoefits 12y ago
Note that "not having the background to understand a problem" isn't the same as "incapable of understanding a problem." However, having the capability and having the experience are two different things. If a group of people haven't got the background to understand a problem, they aren't likely to produce a solution that is viable. I don't see how that's a controversial statement. We "exclude" on this basis all the time in our every day lives (e.g. by selecting doctors for solutions to medical problems, as opposed to, say, firemen or physicists), because it's entirely rational and the empirically correct thing to do.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  The answer to that is to get people the background to understand a problem. People go to to med school to become doctors, you don't automatically blacklist everyone of a particular socioeconomic/racial background (NB: there's a word for this..) as being incapable of having the background necessary to be a doctor.
  - Iftheshoefits 12y ago
    Yes, and "incapable" isn't anything I suggested applied to "young, energetic" types. That was an equivalence you drew while your knee was jerking.
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      No, you merely suggested it applied to "privileged" white males.
      - Iftheshoefits 12y ago
        I did no such thing. I wrote, quite explicitly, that they haven't the empirical foundation; not that they aren't capable of obtaining it.
        Karunamon 12y ago
        And even that is an unsupported assertion.

Jun8 12y ago

My point was that making a full understanding of the students' plight a prerequisite to helping them is a mistake. I teach programming to a low-income high school in the South side of Chicago. I am male and "white" and was born and raised in a different country far away in quite a different culture. I cannot even begin to understand the problems these kids are facing everyday. Yet, there I am helping them, raising money for equipment, buying them rPi's, trying to teach them Python, implementing software for their FRC robot and trying to act as an all around mentor. My cost to the CPS is negative (I bring in all the money, $1k-$2k here, from my company). This is the solution I'm talking about. Of course, my impact is minimal. But money from donors such as Zuckerberg could be used to create bigger grassroots efforts and amplify the impact greatly. Ask yourself: What is the solution that YOU suggest? Reading the thread I was only one concrete suggestions, using the $100M to open a calling center in the area. Is that the best we can do?