5 ms·

The same applied to ancient Jews, I believe. Asking for interests for borrowed money was forbidden by the Laws of God. And then there was a Jubilee once every 7

The same applied to ancient Jews, I believe. Asking for interests for borrowed money was forbidden by the Laws of God. And then there was a Jubilee once every 7*7=49 years, when existing debts were condoned, and a man could return in possession of his house if he (or his parents) somehow had lost it. It was a system promoting mercy and hope even for those who lost everything, rather than creating oppression and exploiting the poor.

draugadrotten 12y ago
> And then there was a Jubilee once every 7*7=49 years In modern Sweden, you are debt free in 5 years only, not seven, by invoking "skuldsanering". Paraphrasing you, modern Sweden has a system promoting mercy and hope even for those who lost everything and the Jubilee law meant creating oppression and exploiting the poor.
- brazzy 12y ago
  Personal bankruptcy laws aren't exactly unique to Sweden. I also think you misunderstand what aruggirello meant.
- joakiml 12y ago
  The catch though is that you live on an existential minimum throughout that time. Everything you earn above that very low level will go to the state, if I understand the system correctly.
- ygmelnikova 12y ago
  Besides the Jubilee, there was a 'release' every 7 years, where 'every creditor that lends unto his neighbour shall release it'. In ancient Israel, real estate was forbidden to be permanently 'sold'. You could lease it out for 50 years, but at the Jubilee, it would return back to the family.
- stuki 12y ago
  Compared to most of Europe, one of the things the US has to recommend it, is easier access to personal bankruptcy, jingle mailing underwater house keys etc. Of course, given the obsession of our time being to trick someone into putting his name on some dotted line, the politicos are doing their darnedest to destroy this, but it's still easier to just walk away in America than in most places. Good to hear Sweden has as good, (perhaps better?) access to such facilities.
BugBrother 12y ago
So "interest is forbidden" was part of the old christian, muslim and jewish religions? I've seen it argued that Islam's real problem is that they have too good sources -- it is harder for those followers to skip those of God's eternal commands which don't work in the modern world... (The most important feature of a working religion -- selective amnesia when rewrit... reinterpreting it? :-) )
- asadlionpk 12y ago
  I don't get how interest based banking is a "better" way or a required way. I am doing very fine without it :) So those eternal commands seem to be working fine for me I guess.
  - bocajuniors 12y ago
    It is our banking system that creates bubbles though.
  - BugBrother 12y ago
    I assume that was humorous? If you're not trying to be funny or follow some left wing variant, but really argue for a fundamentalist sharia state or similar, then I'll say: "Have fun with tolerated slavery, oppressed women, maiming of thieves and religiously mandated hatreds. Welcome to the light when you leave the dark ages."
    - fsiefken 12y ago
      I read it as serious with a touch of humor, how come you have a blind spot for that third personal option next to arguing for a sharia state or being funny? I think it's because you can't imagine a muslim to be not oppressing women, tolerating slavery and being full of hate as you say. I can and know muslims who are not like that. To you I say: 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'.
      - BugBrother 12y ago

draugadrotten 12y ago

> And then there was a Jubilee once every 7*7=49 years In modern Sweden, you are debt free in 5 years only, not seven, by invoking "skuldsanering". Paraphrasing you, modern Sweden has a system promoting mercy and hope even for those who lost everything and the Jubilee law meant creating oppression and exploiting the poor.

brazzy 12y ago
Personal bankruptcy laws aren't exactly unique to Sweden. I also think you misunderstand what aruggirello meant.
joakiml 12y ago
The catch though is that you live on an existential minimum throughout that time. Everything you earn above that very low level will go to the state, if I understand the system correctly.
ygmelnikova 12y ago
Besides the Jubilee, there was a 'release' every 7 years, where 'every creditor that lends unto his neighbour shall release it'. In ancient Israel, real estate was forbidden to be permanently 'sold'. You could lease it out for 50 years, but at the Jubilee, it would return back to the family.
stuki 12y ago
Compared to most of Europe, one of the things the US has to recommend it, is easier access to personal bankruptcy, jingle mailing underwater house keys etc. Of course, given the obsession of our time being to trick someone into putting his name on some dotted line, the politicos are doing their darnedest to destroy this, but it's still easier to just walk away in America than in most places. Good to hear Sweden has as good, (perhaps better?) access to such facilities.

BugBrother 12y ago

So "interest is forbidden" was part of the old christian, muslim and jewish religions? I've seen it argued that Islam's real problem is that they have too good sources -- it is harder for those followers to skip those of God's eternal commands which don't work in the modern world... (The most important feature of a working religion -- selective amnesia when rewrit... reinterpreting it? :-) )

asadlionpk 12y ago
I don't get how interest based banking is a "better" way or a required way. I am doing very fine without it :) So those eternal commands seem to be working fine for me I guess.
- bocajuniors 12y ago
  It is our banking system that creates bubbles though.
- BugBrother 12y ago
  I assume that was humorous? If you're not trying to be funny or follow some left wing variant, but really argue for a fundamentalist sharia state or similar, then I'll say: "Have fun with tolerated slavery, oppressed women, maiming of thieves and religiously mandated hatreds. Welcome to the light when you leave the dark ages."
  - fsiefken 12y ago
    I read it as serious with a touch of humor, how come you have a blind spot for that third personal option next to arguing for a sharia state or being funny? I think it's because you can't imagine a muslim to be not oppressing women, tolerating slavery and being full of hate as you say. I can and know muslims who are not like that. To you I say: 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'.
    - BugBrother 12y ago