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And there is effective slavery in Saudi Arabia (though not in Iran, it's one of their high profile exceptions to islam). OTOH there is real slavery in Mali and

by waps 12y ago

And there is effective slavery in Saudi Arabia (though not in Iran, it's one of their high profile exceptions to islam). OTOH there is real slavery in Mali and several other Saharan islamic nations, so this "truly backward" culture as the other post put it is widespread, geographically and among people. And of course, let's ignore the fact that there is one reason for this, and the fact that people of the same ideology in the US also by and large support slavery, racist law, religious warfare and so on. We are simply to accept is as socially normal and even desirable that there is a sizeable (several millions at least) voting block in the USA that wants to bring back slavery, destroy the principle of equality under the law (men-women, dhimmi, slaves, ...). Here's the argument that is defeating equality under the law and bringing back slavery around the world : Tolerance ! (Since shariah law has been implemented in 4 extra countries in the last 5 years, and has made inroads in western nations including the UK and the US, I think it's a very defensible position that it's gaining ground). This would be funny, but it's very real. It's so completely pathetic. So are you pro-slavery ? Or are you a racist ? This religion needs to be eradicated, to be returned to just being one more book that illustrates just how much of an abomination historical cultures were. It's that simple. And we generally need to lose the noble savage attitude. The vast majority of human cultures are out-of-date, repressive, slavery-based, anti-equality, ... , and generally horrible abominations to live in. Islam is one of these, but this should be the default position of anyone on any culture, because, well, the vast majority of cultures are horrible for the people living in them, and are moral abominations. And NOT just because of economic conditions. We need to stop the "ooh shiny robes on the priests, and nice buildings in Dubai" attitude towards other religions and look at how they treat people.

a-saleh 12y ago
> This religion needs to be eradicated, You mean religion of "tolerance", or "multiculturalism" ? > It's that simple. Nothing is ever "that simple" :)
- waps 12y ago
  > You mean religion of "tolerance", or "multiculturalism" ? You might want to read up on modern scientific theories on the subject. There is no need to outlaw that, as it cannot survive, except for very brief periods. Human minds are copy machines. This will cause different religions/ideologies, where they converge to clash and only a single one can survive (because they don't mix, at all, google "Island species" for why this doesn't happen), except through artificial barriers. Racism is but one such barrier. Geography is another. As anyone who's travelled around a bit and talked a bit with youths in 2 remote parts of the world knows perfectly well, all cultures are converging into a single one. It may not be entirely clear which one is to win, but the variety of half a century ago is dead and done for. What's depressing is that none of the realistic candidates are the least bit tolerant. Even the "liberal" candidate ideology has much, much less tolerance for alternative opinions (never mind actual differences) than the environment I grew up in. The other alternatives are much, much worse, and will directly attack you if you're so much as suspected of having different opinions, as any blogger e.g. in the middle east can testify (my favorite "the big pharaoh"). So no, I mean another religion that needs to be destroyed. If you think that the constant terror acts will actually turn people away from this religion, you urgently need to open up the history books. If you think the future of the religion looks anything different from constant war, genocide, terror and misery for the people following the religion, you need to answer one very, very hard question : given that it has constantly caused these things for 1300+ years now, why would it be different this time round ? Please note that the environment where this faith was created was very, very advanced and tolerant, like our society. Example : Egypt, Africa (which was a province of the Roman Empire back then, not the entire continent). It was eaten alive and turned into the repressive hell-hole in ~150 years, and remained a repressive hell-hole right up to today. The only liberating influence was colonialism, and we all know how exactly the liberation happened : lots of guns. Preventing this from happening again is something that justifies almost any amount of violence.
  - azth 12y ago
    > There is no need to outlaw that, as it cannot survive, except for very brief periods. So 1400+ years is a very brief period? :)

by waps 12y ago

a-saleh 12y ago

> This religion needs to be eradicated, You mean religion of "tolerance", or "multiculturalism" ? > It's that simple. Nothing is ever "that simple" :)

waps 12y ago
> You mean religion of "tolerance", or "multiculturalism" ? You might want to read up on modern scientific theories on the subject. There is no need to outlaw that, as it cannot survive, except for very brief periods. Human minds are copy machines. This will cause different religions/ideologies, where they converge to clash and only a single one can survive (because they don't mix, at all, google "Island species" for why this doesn't happen), except through artificial barriers. Racism is but one such barrier. Geography is another. As anyone who's travelled around a bit and talked a bit with youths in 2 remote parts of the world knows perfectly well, all cultures are converging into a single one. It may not be entirely clear which one is to win, but the variety of half a century ago is dead and done for. What's depressing is that none of the realistic candidates are the least bit tolerant. Even the "liberal" candidate ideology has much, much less tolerance for alternative opinions (never mind actual differences) than the environment I grew up in. The other alternatives are much, much worse, and will directly attack you if you're so much as suspected of having different opinions, as any blogger e.g. in the middle east can testify (my favorite "the big pharaoh"). So no, I mean another religion that needs to be destroyed. If you think that the constant terror acts will actually turn people away from this religion, you urgently need to open up the history books. If you think the future of the religion looks anything different from constant war, genocide, terror and misery for the people following the religion, you need to answer one very, very hard question : given that it has constantly caused these things for 1300+ years now, why would it be different this time round ? Please note that the environment where this faith was created was very, very advanced and tolerant, like our society. Example : Egypt, Africa (which was a province of the Roman Empire back then, not the entire continent). It was eaten alive and turned into the repressive hell-hole in ~150 years, and remained a repressive hell-hole right up to today. The only liberating influence was colonialism, and we all know how exactly the liberation happened : lots of guns. Preventing this from happening again is something that justifies almost any amount of violence.
- azth 12y ago
  > There is no need to outlaw that, as it cannot survive, except for very brief periods. So 1400+ years is a very brief period? :)