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I must admit I was confused to see xeer being posted to HN. Its interesting to contemplate the unique history of Somalia and the Somali people and how it fits i

by cup 12y ago

I must admit I was confused to see xeer being posted to HN. Its interesting to contemplate the unique history of Somalia and the Somali people and how it fits into the greater African jigsaw puzzle. I think the article is slightly misinformed however, the Sharia legal and judicial instrument which was adopted by the Somali people after the growth of the Muslim faith in the region was another system of justice and social order that arrived well before attempted European colonisation. On a tangent, interesting things are happening with the Somali federal government now with respect to the telecommunications industry. Not only does Somalia now have its own top down domain (.so) but fiber optic lines are slowly being rolled out in the capital. I find it ironic to think that in Australia the government is singing praises for copper network lines (after repealing the NBN) yet war torn anarchic Somali is pushing in the other direction. Somalia and Africas future really does look interesting.

mtkd 12y ago
I find articles like this quite useful for developing my thoughts on algorithms I use - my first reaction when reading was 'could this be applicable to machine learning?'.
- aet 12y ago
  and, is it?
  - prawks 12y ago
    My thought is that it may be applicable if you're looking to find points of convergence, which classification of data by multiple classifiers may seek to do. Would be a fun experiment. Do different classifiers who have been taught with different data sets tend to classify data points similarly? I'm unsure of an exciting real-world problem you could use where this would be beneficial over teaching one classifier with all of the data, but I'm also not super familiar with the math behind many of the classification algorithms out there.
    - aet 12y ago
      Interesting. For example, with temporal data, like stock market data, some models might be "elders" in the sense that they are trained on longer spans of data, whereas, other models might be estimated just from the last few weeks.
dfc 12y ago
Why is it ironic that Australia is singing the praises of copper? Can you imagine anyone thinking it would be a good idea to hang dollar bills from wooden poles in a war torn country? After looking at Australia and Somalia's history, geography and current economic development why would anyone think what is good for one country would necessarily work for the other.
- shiven 12y ago
  Perhaps you have some facts to support the Australian argument; but generally older tech is supported and propped up by entrenched interests, focused on their own profit margins, public good be damned.
  - dfc 12y ago
    Perhaps you can explain why you think I support the Australian argument? My question about OP's concept of irony is not an endorsement of Australia's policy. Or perhaps you can explain why you think Somalia and Australia have a lot in common?
    - jessedhillon 12y ago
      He's not saying the irony is coming from Somalia's shunning of copper, but from Australia's shunning of fiber in favor of an older technology. The irony is that the poorer country has the superior tech. You simply seem like someone who wants to point out that running copper is like hanging dollar bills because, you know, the Poors.
      - dfc 12y ago
        > seem like someone who wants to point out that running copper is > like hanging dollar bills because, you know, the Poors. I do not not know what this means. What kind of person is that? I have never seen a civil society / NGO telecom development project that did not rule out running copper in an impoverished country with a weak government. Have you? The problem is not "the poors." The problem is a failed economy and no rule of law.
11001 12y ago
> I find it ironic to think that in Australia the government is singing praises for copper network lines [...] yet war torn anarchic Somalia is pushing in the other direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging
- dfc 12y ago
  Dont forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft
  - buyx 12y ago
    Metal theft can be solved using wireless technologies. No need for fiber, except between base stations.
    - dfc 12y ago
      Yeah, that is the point. It is not an apples to apples comparison between copper and fiber or wireless. Fiber and wireless do not require hanging dollar bills from wooden poles in impoverished war torn countries. Even if copper were a superior technology it would be hard to recommend investing in infrastructure that is going to be torn down and sold for scrap metal in order to feed someone's family.
VLM 12y ago
"I must admit I was confused to see xeer being posted to HN." Social media / web blog / MMORPG code of conduct / Karma scheme / online digital currency / standards of behavior all belong here? If, today, on eveonline, or any other mmorpg, enough people wanted to roll a system out for conflict resolution, well, here's a historical system thats known to work and be stable and well documented, or documented well enough anyway. It might actually transplant successfully. Much as most social media is essentially workforce automation for grade school girl playground scale interpersonal relations, there are obvious startup opportunities to provide distributed worldwide mediation services using proven stable and successful historical techniques with a thin patina of CRUD web app and mobile phone data harvesting app smeared over it. Although this paragraph is hyper sarcastic its also serious, there are obvious startup opportunities for a proven stable and workable mediation system. Other than having problems educating the participants, I see no particular reason it couldn't scale worldwide for mediation. MaaS is Mediation as a Service? I suppose the startup would base their support call center in .so for obvious reasons? Its a very interesting idea and I'm almost sorry to state it publicly because I'd almost want to roll it out myself.
- notahacker 12y ago
  If I were to start a private mediation system in the West I'd probably want my brand image associated more with sophisticated private mediation systems that already help resolve disputes within Western law, and less towards village elders deciding the level of blood money a clan must pay to forestall future family feuds
  - VLM 12y ago
    "start a private mediation system in the West" Oh, I may not have made that clear. I'd roll out outside the West and maybe enter the general US market, maybe not. The GDP of Africa as a continent is about $2T and growing relatively fast.
LyndsySimon 12y ago
Interestingly, my understanding is that Somalia also has a fairly ubiqutious mobile payments system, which operates over SMS. It's not perfect - it seems to rely on individual companies to remain honest, for instance - but one can go to a local market and add funds to their account with cash, then send those funds to others via a text message. Seeing that such a system has still yet to take off in many industrialized countries, I find that pretty amazing :)
- zhemao 12y ago
  I think you are thinking of M-PESA, which is run by Kenyan and Tanzanian mobile providers Safaricom and Vodacom.
elwell 12y ago
> I must admit I was confused to see xeer being posted to HN (from wikipedia) > It is an example of how customary law works within a stateless society Anything that uses the word "stateless" is guaranteed to make it to the front page of HN, an immutable conglomeration of immutability fanatics.

by cup 12y ago

mtkd 12y ago

I find articles like this quite useful for developing my thoughts on algorithms I use - my first reaction when reading was 'could this be applicable to machine learning?'.

aet 12y ago
and, is it?
- prawks 12y ago
  My thought is that it may be applicable if you're looking to find points of convergence, which classification of data by multiple classifiers may seek to do. Would be a fun experiment. Do different classifiers who have been taught with different data sets tend to classify data points similarly? I'm unsure of an exciting real-world problem you could use where this would be beneficial over teaching one classifier with all of the data, but I'm also not super familiar with the math behind many of the classification algorithms out there.
  - aet 12y ago
    Interesting. For example, with temporal data, like stock market data, some models might be "elders" in the sense that they are trained on longer spans of data, whereas, other models might be estimated just from the last few weeks.

dfc 12y ago

Why is it ironic that Australia is singing the praises of copper? Can you imagine anyone thinking it would be a good idea to hang dollar bills from wooden poles in a war torn country? After looking at Australia and Somalia's history, geography and current economic development why would anyone think what is good for one country would necessarily work for the other.

shiven 12y ago
Perhaps you have some facts to support the Australian argument; but generally older tech is supported and propped up by entrenched interests, focused on their own profit margins, public good be damned.
- dfc 12y ago
  Perhaps you can explain why you think I support the Australian argument? My question about OP's concept of irony is not an endorsement of Australia's policy. Or perhaps you can explain why you think Somalia and Australia have a lot in common?
  - jessedhillon 12y ago
    He's not saying the irony is coming from Somalia's shunning of copper, but from Australia's shunning of fiber in favor of an older technology. The irony is that the poorer country has the superior tech. You simply seem like someone who wants to point out that running copper is like hanging dollar bills because, you know, the Poors.
    - dfc 12y ago
      > seem like someone who wants to point out that running copper is > like hanging dollar bills because, you know, the Poors. I do not not know what this means. What kind of person is that? I have never seen a civil society / NGO telecom development project that did not rule out running copper in an impoverished country with a weak government. Have you? The problem is not "the poors." The problem is a failed economy and no rule of law.

11001 12y ago

> I find it ironic to think that in Australia the government is singing praises for copper network lines [...] yet war torn anarchic Somalia is pushing in the other direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrogging

dfc 12y ago
Dont forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft
- buyx 12y ago
  Metal theft can be solved using wireless technologies. No need for fiber, except between base stations.
  - dfc 12y ago
    Yeah, that is the point. It is not an apples to apples comparison between copper and fiber or wireless. Fiber and wireless do not require hanging dollar bills from wooden poles in impoverished war torn countries. Even if copper were a superior technology it would be hard to recommend investing in infrastructure that is going to be torn down and sold for scrap metal in order to feed someone's family.

VLM 12y ago

"I must admit I was confused to see xeer being posted to HN." Social media / web blog / MMORPG code of conduct / Karma scheme / online digital currency / standards of behavior all belong here? If, today, on eveonline, or any other mmorpg, enough people wanted to roll a system out for conflict resolution, well, here's a historical system thats known to work and be stable and well documented, or documented well enough anyway. It might actually transplant successfully. Much as most social media is essentially workforce automation for grade school girl playground scale interpersonal relations, there are obvious startup opportunities to provide distributed worldwide mediation services using proven stable and successful historical techniques with a thin patina of CRUD web app and mobile phone data harvesting app smeared over it. Although this paragraph is hyper sarcastic its also serious, there are obvious startup opportunities for a proven stable and workable mediation system. Other than having problems educating the participants, I see no particular reason it couldn't scale worldwide for mediation. MaaS is Mediation as a Service? I suppose the startup would base their support call center in .so for obvious reasons? Its a very interesting idea and I'm almost sorry to state it publicly because I'd almost want to roll it out myself.

notahacker 12y ago
If I were to start a private mediation system in the West I'd probably want my brand image associated more with sophisticated private mediation systems that already help resolve disputes within Western law, and less towards village elders deciding the level of blood money a clan must pay to forestall future family feuds
- VLM 12y ago
  "start a private mediation system in the West" Oh, I may not have made that clear. I'd roll out outside the West and maybe enter the general US market, maybe not. The GDP of Africa as a continent is about $2T and growing relatively fast.

LyndsySimon 12y ago

Interestingly, my understanding is that Somalia also has a fairly ubiqutious mobile payments system, which operates over SMS. It's not perfect - it seems to rely on individual companies to remain honest, for instance - but one can go to a local market and add funds to their account with cash, then send those funds to others via a text message. Seeing that such a system has still yet to take off in many industrialized countries, I find that pretty amazing :)

zhemao 12y ago
I think you are thinking of M-PESA, which is run by Kenyan and Tanzanian mobile providers Safaricom and Vodacom.

elwell 12y ago

> I must admit I was confused to see xeer being posted to HN (from wikipedia) > It is an example of how customary law works within a stateless society Anything that uses the word "stateless" is guaranteed to make it to the front page of HN, an immutable conglomeration of immutability fanatics.