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Honestly, by now I also want Britain to leave the EU. If these guys think of themselves as an isolated island in the middle of the Atlantic rather than an impor

Honestly, by now I also want Britain to leave the EU. If these guys think of themselves as an isolated island in the middle of the Atlantic rather than an important piece of Europe ten kilometres off the coast of France, fine, but they should stop forcing their curious worldview on the rest of Europe.

arethuza 12y ago
Worth noting that not all parts of the UK are anti-EU - there is a larger margin in favour of the EU in Scotland than there is against in England: http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/6761-scotland-and-the-eu-the-polling-evidence http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/6761-s... [Edit: I am a Scot]
- beejiu 12y ago
  Also worth noting that Scotland could realistically become independent of the UK in a referendum this year (opinion polls have a small margin against), which will leave it both out of the UK and out the European Union.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - ronaldx 12y ago
    >out the European Union. This is IMHO highly unlikely in practice. Succession/secession law regarding EU membership is untested, but the simplest suggestion is that rest-of-the-UK retains membership, and Scotland has to reapply as a "new" member. I think that's what you're saying. But, this is awkward and probably not legally correct because it treats the two newly formed countries differently. This is also not in anyone's interest, except for perhaps Spain (Spanish politicians are pushing this solution because they are worried about Catalonia): it forces two countries to do the opposite of what their electorate would prefer. For now, this is just a propaganda designed to frighten voters: some other arrangement would be made. Wikipedia has a large amount of detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_enlargement_of_the_European_Union#Upcoming_independence_referendum_sanctioned_by_an_EU_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_enlargement_of_the_Euro...
    - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
      Spain aren't the only country who have potential independence concerns and new membership does require all 28 countries to agree. My instinct is the same as yours - that ultimately it would happen - but I don't think it's just propaganda. It's fair to say that there are doubts about it happening (at the very least the timescales and mechanisms). Given that much of England don't want to be in the EU perhaps the easiest thing would be that we adopt Spain's ideal approach but instead of England, Wales and NI remaining in and Scotland reapply, Scotland get the "existing" place and England, Wales and NI can reapply if they wish... Edit: Englishman living in Scotland (for 7 years now with no intention of leaving whatever happens with independence).
  - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
    There has been one poll of the 47 conducted since January 2012 which has shown a lead for independence. All others have shown a lead of between 3 and 32 points for the Scotland remaining in the union. The two most recent polls I'm aware of show a 3 point and 15 point lead respectively (both for rejecting independence) The low one comes from a polling company consistently showing the smallest leads, the high one from a company showing the largest leads. Looking at all polls somewhere in high single figures with wide error bars would probably be the safest assumption. I'm not saying it won't happen but the suggestion that it's a small margin suggests it's more likely than it really is. Slightly out of date (to end last month) polling data here: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence-referendum http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence-referendu...

arethuza 12y ago

Worth noting that not all parts of the UK are anti-EU - there is a larger margin in favour of the EU in Scotland than there is against in England: http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/6761-scotland-and-the-eu-the-polling-evidence http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/6761-s... [Edit: I am a Scot]

beejiu 12y ago
Also worth noting that Scotland could realistically become independent of the UK in a referendum this year (opinion polls have a small margin against), which will leave it both out of the UK and out the European Union.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ronaldx 12y ago
  >out the European Union. This is IMHO highly unlikely in practice. Succession/secession law regarding EU membership is untested, but the simplest suggestion is that rest-of-the-UK retains membership, and Scotland has to reapply as a "new" member. I think that's what you're saying. But, this is awkward and probably not legally correct because it treats the two newly formed countries differently. This is also not in anyone's interest, except for perhaps Spain (Spanish politicians are pushing this solution because they are worried about Catalonia): it forces two countries to do the opposite of what their electorate would prefer. For now, this is just a propaganda designed to frighten voters: some other arrangement would be made. Wikipedia has a large amount of detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_enlargement_of_the_European_Union#Upcoming_independence_referendum_sanctioned_by_an_EU_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_enlargement_of_the_Euro...
  - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
    Spain aren't the only country who have potential independence concerns and new membership does require all 28 countries to agree. My instinct is the same as yours - that ultimately it would happen - but I don't think it's just propaganda. It's fair to say that there are doubts about it happening (at the very least the timescales and mechanisms). Given that much of England don't want to be in the EU perhaps the easiest thing would be that we adopt Spain's ideal approach but instead of England, Wales and NI remaining in and Scotland reapply, Scotland get the "existing" place and England, Wales and NI can reapply if they wish... Edit: Englishman living in Scotland (for 7 years now with no intention of leaving whatever happens with independence).
- Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
  There has been one poll of the 47 conducted since January 2012 which has shown a lead for independence. All others have shown a lead of between 3 and 32 points for the Scotland remaining in the union. The two most recent polls I'm aware of show a 3 point and 15 point lead respectively (both for rejecting independence) The low one comes from a polling company consistently showing the smallest leads, the high one from a company showing the largest leads. Looking at all polls somewhere in high single figures with wide error bars would probably be the safest assumption. I'm not saying it won't happen but the suggestion that it's a small margin suggests it's more likely than it really is. Slightly out of date (to end last month) polling data here: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence-referendum http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-independence-referendu...