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The photo looks more like a pile of rubble than anything resembling a ship. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have expected it to look like the Swedish Vasa, but I was

by kijin 13y ago

The photo looks more like a pile of rubble than anything resembling a ship. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have expected it to look like the Swedish Vasa, but I was still disappointed. I guess organic materials don't last as long in the warm waters of the Caribbean as they do in the cold Baltic Sea. Just out of curiosity, what would the conditions have to be in order for a wooden vessel to remain recognizable after being in warm water for 500 or 1000 years? Would anoxic water help?

codezero 13y ago
It sounds like much of what they found was ballast, which may have been heavier material like rocks/metal, and they identified it based on it being an anomaly compared to the surrounding seabed and journal entries made by Columbus. As for your question, I wish I knew, though I recall from an Anthropology course I took that the older wooden artifacts tend to be found in peat bogs over a thousand years after being deposited. If I understand correctly, the condition isn't great, but the peat bogs themselves prevent oxygen from entering the environment and decrease decay rates of organic material. A quick search shows that peat bogs can exist under the sea so the conditions you describe might exist even under warm water.
harlanlewis 13y ago
The disappointing lack of shape isn't just from decomposition - the foundered ship's timbers were used to build a fort. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-lost-fort-of-columbus-8026921/?no-ist http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-lost-fort-of-colum... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_(ship)#Shipwreck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_(ship)#Shipwre...
ciscoriordan 13y ago
The Vasa was in cold, brackish water. Low salinity is good for preservation. Sinking somewhere difficult to reach is important, to prevent salvage. The Vasa had her cannon brought up to the surface but was otherwise left alone. I went to the museum on a whim last year and was pleasantly surprised. It's not just the hull of the ship, everything onboard was preserved. Really cool engineering project lesson, too. The Vasa had a critical engineering flaw (way too top heavy) that came about due to pressure from the king. As a result, she sank as soon as she was launched on her maiden voyage!
- bluedevil2k 13y ago
  Further, the brackish water was inhospitable for the organisms that usually break down wood in the ocean, ship worms for example.
mhandley 13y ago
One of the main reasons the Vasa is so well preserved is that the Baltic isn't saltwater - it's just slightly brackish. In saltwater, shipworms will eventually eat away any exposed wood, but they don't live in brackish or fresh water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipworms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipworms

by kijin 13y ago

codezero 13y ago

It sounds like much of what they found was ballast, which may have been heavier material like rocks/metal, and they identified it based on it being an anomaly compared to the surrounding seabed and journal entries made by Columbus. As for your question, I wish I knew, though I recall from an Anthropology course I took that the older wooden artifacts tend to be found in peat bogs over a thousand years after being deposited. If I understand correctly, the condition isn't great, but the peat bogs themselves prevent oxygen from entering the environment and decrease decay rates of organic material. A quick search shows that peat bogs can exist under the sea so the conditions you describe might exist even under warm water.

harlanlewis 13y ago

The disappointing lack of shape isn't just from decomposition - the foundered ship's timbers were used to build a fort. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-lost-fort-of-columbus-8026921/?no-ist http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-lost-fort-of-colum... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_(ship)#Shipwreck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_(ship)#Shipwre...

ciscoriordan 13y ago

The Vasa was in cold, brackish water. Low salinity is good for preservation. Sinking somewhere difficult to reach is important, to prevent salvage. The Vasa had her cannon brought up to the surface but was otherwise left alone. I went to the museum on a whim last year and was pleasantly surprised. It's not just the hull of the ship, everything onboard was preserved. Really cool engineering project lesson, too. The Vasa had a critical engineering flaw (way too top heavy) that came about due to pressure from the king. As a result, she sank as soon as she was launched on her maiden voyage!

bluedevil2k 13y ago
Further, the brackish water was inhospitable for the organisms that usually break down wood in the ocean, ship worms for example.

mhandley 13y ago

One of the main reasons the Vasa is so well preserved is that the Baltic isn't saltwater - it's just slightly brackish. In saltwater, shipworms will eventually eat away any exposed wood, but they don't live in brackish or fresh water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipworms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipworms