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Since we're listing alternatives here: I setup SeaFile (http://seafile.com/ http://seafile.com/) a couple of months ago and I'm loving it so far. Mainly because

by stinos 13y ago

Since we're listing alternatives here: I setup SeaFile (http://seafile.com/ http://seafile.com/) a couple of months ago and I'm loving it so far. Mainly because it has client-side encryption and allows a single client to sync with different servers and selectively choose which 'libraries' (basically directories that are under sync) to use. Typical usecase is having a personal server for personal files and another one at the office for work-related stuff.

nodata 13y ago
I couldn't decipher what SeaFile was or how all the components fitted together, can you recommend a review or write-up?
- mverwijs 13y ago
  Components overview: https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/wiki/Seafile-server-components-overview https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/wiki/Seafile-server-compon... (Installed it yesterday on a debian LXC)
dcalacci 13y ago
I use seafile as well - I host it on my digital ocean instance and it works very well and things sync very quickly. best part is that it does automatic, granular snapshots of my data - I've stopped using git for things like papers because I know it's backed up in seafile.
naiyt 13y ago
I've been using Seafile for a few weeks as well, and have been pretty impressed. It's been a better experience then ownCloud, for me. Having an open source syncing service with client side encryption is great.
pestaa 13y ago
Very much agreed. Seafile absolutely blows ownCloud out of the water.
- AdrianoZum 13y ago
  I tried Owncloud for a while and was disappointed. Ended up using Syncdocs (http://syncdocs.com http://syncdocs.com) to do end-to-end encryption to Google Drive. The main advantage of this was the versioning is done by Google and fast access from anywhere. I'll be taking a look at Seafile now, looks promising.
- socceroos 13y ago
  I'm curious as to why people have had such bad ownCloud experiences? I've had it set up on my servers for 12+ months now and am really enjoying the experience. Could someone please explain further?
  - unhammer 13y ago
    Also happy owncloud user for over a year; though i mainly use it for calendar+contacts (both synced with both phone and emacs) and auto-backups of pictures I take with my phone. Documents and such I tend to keep in various public or private git repos; habits die hard.
  - drdaeman 12y ago
    My issue with ownCloud is that it lacks partial (differential) updates. Change a bit in a file and have a whole one re-uploaded. Also, security track combined with the implementation language scare me to the extent of not really willing to expose the whole thing to the Internet. Just being superstitious here.
RRRA 13y ago
By client side encryption you mean you can use a friend you don't have to trust as a cross-backup system? Also, anyone know how they compare? :) EDIT: Login Log <- none for the free version?
- stinos 13y ago
  you mean you can use a friend you don't have to trust as a cross-backup system I mainly mean it has client side encryption, the consequences of that I'd like to leave open since nobody really knows or can predict all possible vulnerabilities of all possible systems. But yes basically: your friend would have a very, very hard time doing anything useful with the data or the incoming packets. none for the free version? not sure what you mean, I host the thing myself (serisouly, 5$ a month for a DigitalOcean box: best way ever to spend money:) but the site seems to claim there is 1GB free storage if you try their service?
noinsight 13y ago
Seafile sounds promising but I'd like to see someone review the code (call me sceptical).
- ef4 13y ago
  I did, and it did not inspire confidence. https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350 https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350
ef4 13y ago
I like seafile too, but after doing some of my own review of the source (https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350 https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350) I'm not willing to trust it on the open internet. For now I run seafile inside a private network behind a vpn. But I'd rather find an alternative with a better security story. Something from a team that can justify their cryptographic constructs in detail.
- lugg 13y ago
  I dont get it, why is deduping at a chunk level important, can't it just take it as a tradeoff and dedupe at the file level, or does that have the same problems? And why exactly is deduping important for a personal use case, bandwidth is relatively cheap. In any case, while I want security in these systems to avoid mass survey style attacks, I assume anything I put over the wire to be compromised at least potentially. I keep the kind of files that need that level of encryption on encrypted flash drives.
  - enscr 13y ago
    If you are encrypting each file individually, you are still giving away the file names. Hence you use encrypted file containers. They benefit from block level deduplication. They can be large in size.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      If you are encrypting each file individually, you are still giving away the file names. Hence you use encrypted file containers. That doesn't follow - you can solve the problem without containers, e.g. by encrypting or hashing the filenames. Containers protect the file sizes, but they lose the ability to selectively sync certain files to certain nodes.
      - enscr 12y ago
        Hashing doesn't solve the problem completely. You are still giving away information about file count, size & hierarchy. Regarding selective sync : you'll have to organize the files logically into containers. I think even Dropbox doesn't let you sync files selectively, you have to have content separated into folders. I'm not saying that one is better than other, just giving an example of where de-duping at block level is needed as @lugg asked.

by stinos 13y ago

nodata 13y ago

I couldn't decipher what SeaFile was or how all the components fitted together, can you recommend a review or write-up?

mverwijs 13y ago
Components overview: https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/wiki/Seafile-server-components-overview https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/wiki/Seafile-server-compon... (Installed it yesterday on a debian LXC)

dcalacci 13y ago

I use seafile as well - I host it on my digital ocean instance and it works very well and things sync very quickly. best part is that it does automatic, granular snapshots of my data - I've stopped using git for things like papers because I know it's backed up in seafile.

naiyt 13y ago

I've been using Seafile for a few weeks as well, and have been pretty impressed. It's been a better experience then ownCloud, for me. Having an open source syncing service with client side encryption is great.

pestaa 13y ago

Very much agreed. Seafile absolutely blows ownCloud out of the water.

AdrianoZum 13y ago
I tried Owncloud for a while and was disappointed. Ended up using Syncdocs (http://syncdocs.com http://syncdocs.com) to do end-to-end encryption to Google Drive. The main advantage of this was the versioning is done by Google and fast access from anywhere. I'll be taking a look at Seafile now, looks promising.
socceroos 13y ago
I'm curious as to why people have had such bad ownCloud experiences? I've had it set up on my servers for 12+ months now and am really enjoying the experience. Could someone please explain further?
- unhammer 13y ago
  Also happy owncloud user for over a year; though i mainly use it for calendar+contacts (both synced with both phone and emacs) and auto-backups of pictures I take with my phone. Documents and such I tend to keep in various public or private git repos; habits die hard.
- drdaeman 12y ago
  My issue with ownCloud is that it lacks partial (differential) updates. Change a bit in a file and have a whole one re-uploaded. Also, security track combined with the implementation language scare me to the extent of not really willing to expose the whole thing to the Internet. Just being superstitious here.

RRRA 13y ago

By client side encryption you mean you can use a friend you don't have to trust as a cross-backup system? Also, anyone know how they compare? :) EDIT: Login Log <- none for the free version?

stinos 13y ago
you mean you can use a friend you don't have to trust as a cross-backup system I mainly mean it has client side encryption, the consequences of that I'd like to leave open since nobody really knows or can predict all possible vulnerabilities of all possible systems. But yes basically: your friend would have a very, very hard time doing anything useful with the data or the incoming packets. none for the free version? not sure what you mean, I host the thing myself (serisouly, 5$ a month for a DigitalOcean box: best way ever to spend money:) but the site seems to claim there is 1GB free storage if you try their service?

noinsight 13y ago

Seafile sounds promising but I'd like to see someone review the code (call me sceptical).

ef4 13y ago
I did, and it did not inspire confidence. https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350 https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350

ef4 13y ago

I like seafile too, but after doing some of my own review of the source (https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350 https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350) I'm not willing to trust it on the open internet. For now I run seafile inside a private network behind a vpn. But I'd rather find an alternative with a better security story. Something from a team that can justify their cryptographic constructs in detail.

lugg 13y ago
I dont get it, why is deduping at a chunk level important, can't it just take it as a tradeoff and dedupe at the file level, or does that have the same problems? And why exactly is deduping important for a personal use case, bandwidth is relatively cheap. In any case, while I want security in these systems to avoid mass survey style attacks, I assume anything I put over the wire to be compromised at least potentially. I keep the kind of files that need that level of encryption on encrypted flash drives.
- enscr 13y ago
  If you are encrypting each file individually, you are still giving away the file names. Hence you use encrypted file containers. They benefit from block level deduplication. They can be large in size.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    If you are encrypting each file individually, you are still giving away the file names. Hence you use encrypted file containers. That doesn't follow - you can solve the problem without containers, e.g. by encrypting or hashing the filenames. Containers protect the file sizes, but they lose the ability to selectively sync certain files to certain nodes.
    - enscr 12y ago
      Hashing doesn't solve the problem completely. You are still giving away information about file count, size & hierarchy. Regarding selective sync : you'll have to organize the files logically into containers. I think even Dropbox doesn't let you sync files selectively, you have to have content separated into folders. I'm not saying that one is better than other, just giving an example of where de-duping at block level is needed as @lugg asked.