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> That will be the dawning of an age of widespread empathy with our animals brethren, along with a wave of horror and shame at our previous treatment of them.

by _pmf_ 13y ago

> That will be the dawning of an age of widespread empathy with our animals brethren, along with a wave of horror and shame at our previous treatment of them. Because that worked so well with regard to fellow humans.

vanwesson 13y ago
The world is less violent than ever. The average person's chances of coming to a violent end have been declining for a while: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-... Much of the common violence and atrocities of the past when portrayed in movies and other forms of entertainment are shocking and far removed from the every day experience. See the most recent US Academy Award "Best Picture" winner for an example.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > Much of the common violence and atrocities of the past when portrayed in movies and other forms of entertainment To be fair, they are never portrayed in a very realistic way. Or at least not in a way in which you care about the characters dying on screen. As to the claim of "less violence", let's rather say "violence in number is decreasing", but there are still very violent AND cruel acts being carried as we speak in many parts of the world. And let's not forget there are still many places as well where people are enslaved - the fact that these behaviors are resilient does not say lots of good things about humanity.
  - gknoy 13y ago
    > To be fair, they are never portrayed in a very realistic way. Or at least not in a way in which you care about the characters dying on screen. I'm not sure I agree. Usually they are not, but perhaps you might re-watch Saving Private Ryan. It's not the only gory war movie, but it does a remarkable job of showcasing horrific things we humans do to each other. The knife fight scene is especially disturbing. "The Tudors" also had some pretty cruel punishments, though often it's not carried off on-screen. Even when the people being tortured are not protagonists, it's hard not to empathize in the "oh god that's just not right" way. You make a good point though about there still being terrible things going on in other parts of the globe.
- 001sky 13y ago
  There are many reasons to believe that predator/prey dynamics will never be turned into lovey-dovey halcyon days. Something in nature underelies the drive and instinct to prey on the weak--it's not a human issue. Its also prevalent in cannabalistic primates, and more obviously in every (true) carnivore. The cat playing with the mouse, the great white shark tossing a seal, the aligator and the serpent. There are many deeper relationships that are not simple "mis-understandings"--the food chain doesn't work that way. The architecture of Nature's species--nutrition and health-- is logically at odds with the entire scenario. Would the parasite and the host ever have a "healthy" relationship?
  - taliesinb 13y ago
    It's true that only autotrophs have the luxury of a guilt-free existence. But if and when our deeper existential problems have been solved, we can imagine constructing robotic simulacra to give those predators satisfying prey to chase. A deeper quandary might end up being: once we have done it for ourselves, are we obliged to cure death for other creatures, too?
- sbmassey 13y ago
  Lets see how peaceful humans are after we've finished burning through the available fossil fuels. It's relatively easy to be peaceful while you have copious wealth.
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    Sure that'll happen any day now....
taliesinb 13y ago
The venerable technology of print media has caused many such waves in the past. The history of slavery provides many examples of how literature was kindling for huge changes in popular opinion that eventually ended slavery in the western world. And literature is of course a mental bridge between people distant in time and space. More efficient bridges will be invented in the future, and they will become effective across species, too.

by _pmf_ 13y ago

vanwesson 13y ago

The world is less violent than ever. The average person's chances of coming to a violent end have been declining for a while: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-... Much of the common violence and atrocities of the past when portrayed in movies and other forms of entertainment are shocking and far removed from the every day experience. See the most recent US Academy Award "Best Picture" winner for an example.

ekianjo 13y ago
> Much of the common violence and atrocities of the past when portrayed in movies and other forms of entertainment To be fair, they are never portrayed in a very realistic way. Or at least not in a way in which you care about the characters dying on screen. As to the claim of "less violence", let's rather say "violence in number is decreasing", but there are still very violent AND cruel acts being carried as we speak in many parts of the world. And let's not forget there are still many places as well where people are enslaved - the fact that these behaviors are resilient does not say lots of good things about humanity.
- gknoy 13y ago
  > To be fair, they are never portrayed in a very realistic way. Or at least not in a way in which you care about the characters dying on screen. I'm not sure I agree. Usually they are not, but perhaps you might re-watch Saving Private Ryan. It's not the only gory war movie, but it does a remarkable job of showcasing horrific things we humans do to each other. The knife fight scene is especially disturbing. "The Tudors" also had some pretty cruel punishments, though often it's not carried off on-screen. Even when the people being tortured are not protagonists, it's hard not to empathize in the "oh god that's just not right" way. You make a good point though about there still being terrible things going on in other parts of the globe.
001sky 13y ago
There are many reasons to believe that predator/prey dynamics will never be turned into lovey-dovey halcyon days. Something in nature underelies the drive and instinct to prey on the weak--it's not a human issue. Its also prevalent in cannabalistic primates, and more obviously in every (true) carnivore. The cat playing with the mouse, the great white shark tossing a seal, the aligator and the serpent. There are many deeper relationships that are not simple "mis-understandings"--the food chain doesn't work that way. The architecture of Nature's species--nutrition and health-- is logically at odds with the entire scenario. Would the parasite and the host ever have a "healthy" relationship?
- taliesinb 13y ago
  It's true that only autotrophs have the luxury of a guilt-free existence. But if and when our deeper existential problems have been solved, we can imagine constructing robotic simulacra to give those predators satisfying prey to chase. A deeper quandary might end up being: once we have done it for ourselves, are we obliged to cure death for other creatures, too?
sbmassey 13y ago
Lets see how peaceful humans are after we've finished burning through the available fossil fuels. It's relatively easy to be peaceful while you have copious wealth.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  Sure that'll happen any day now....

taliesinb 13y ago

The venerable technology of print media has caused many such waves in the past. The history of slavery provides many examples of how literature was kindling for huge changes in popular opinion that eventually ended slavery in the western world. And literature is of course a mental bridge between people distant in time and space. More efficient bridges will be invented in the future, and they will become effective across species, too.