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Deep Intellect: Inside the mind of the octopus
- kentosi 12y agoFor any pedants who cringed reading "octopuses" instead of "octopi", here's the wiki section to reassure that this is actually correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluraliza... Other sources through Google also confirm this.
- quotient 12y agoWe should note that this is for the worst kind of pedant only: the wrong kind. It's also important to note that the most correct of all forms (though also more archaic) is octopodes.
- oska 12y agoI noticed the author used octopodan. First time I think I've seen that word. > But she was very significant to me, both as an individual and as a representative from her octopodan world.
- jonchang 12y agoIt's a common adjective formation. Octopoda -> octopodan, compare to Mollusca -> molluscan.
- bjt 12y agoWhat makes octopodes more correct? All the dictionaries cited preferred octopuses.
- thelibrarian 12y agoI have a friend who says pluralising "octopus" as "octopi" shows ignorance of three languages - English, Latin, and Greek. "Octopus" is of Greek origin and the Greek plural is "octopodes". The Latin plural is "polyporum" (the singular being "polypus"). The English plural is "octopuses" as we add "s" or "es" when pluralising.
- sbmassey 12y ago'polyporum' would be genitive plural 'of the octopuses'. The more usual nominative plural would 'polypi'
- thisjepisje 12y agoOn the other hand, you could say that not accepting "octopi" as a plural of "octopus" shows 'ignorance' of languages in general.
- rurounijones 12y agoI have always loved octopuses from hearing stories about their intelligence. Reading about the antics of some of these octopuses in this article was surprisingly hilarious.
- ekianjo 12y agoExcellent article, I liked this part: > One octopus Mather was watching had just returned home and was cleaning the front of the den with its arms. Then, suddenly, it left the den, crawled a meter away, picked up one particular rock and placed the rock in front of the den. Two minutes later, the octopus ventured forth to select a second rock. Then it chose a third. Attaching suckers to all the rocks, the octopus carried the load home, slid through the den opening, and carefully arranged the three objects in front. Then it went to sleep. What the octopus was thinking seemed obvious: “Three rocks are enough. Good night!”
- pavel_lishin 12y agoIt seems weird to say, "Well obviously this is what this alien intellect was thinking".
- ekianjo 12y agoThat's the way we perceive things. But the article mentions many times that we probably have no idea what is the consciousness level of the Octopus, since it has more neurons in its arms than in its central brain.
- andrewflnr 12y agoI suspect the author agrees. The tone there seemed a bit facetious to me, especially given the "Good night!" addendum.
- sxtxixtxcxh 12y ago"seems" is the operative word... here and in the quote you were talking about.
- keypusher 12y agoFascinating. I am particularly intrigued by the separate evolution of their intelligence and neurons in their arms. A different type of consciousness indeed, I wonder if it is even possible to comprehend what their experience of the world might be like.
- greenyoda 12y agoThe independent nervous system in an octopus' arm (which continues to operate after an arm has been severed) reminded me of the independent nervous system in the human gut: "The enteric nervous system has been described as a 'second brain' for several reasons. The enteric nervous system can operate autonomously. It normally communicates with the central nervous system (CNS) through the parasympathetic (e.g., via the vagus nerve) and sympathetic (e.g., via the prevertebral ganglia) nervous systems. However, vertebrate studies show that when the vagus nerve is severed, the enteric nervous system continues to function."[1] It's remarkable how two nervous systems that evolved separately share this kind of similarity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_nervous_system#Complexity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_nervous_system#Complex...
- pazimzadeh 12y agoThe idea that octopi evolved their intelligence due to increased mobility after losing their ancestral shell is consistent with findings about the human brain, which are that brains are used for movement. I highly recommend Daniel Wolpert's talk about this idea: https://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_wolpert_the_real_reason_for_brains https://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_wolpert_the_real_reason_for...
- taliesinb 12y agoOne day we will use computers to bridge the human mental and social worlds with those of even quite alien creatures like the pacific octopus. That will be the dawning of an age of widespread empathy with our animals brethren, along with a wave of horror and shame at our previous treatment of them. Long before that, though, we'll enjoy immersive VR recordings from the viewpoint of other creatures. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Cameron was involved in bringing such things to a wide audience. But even with today's technology this recording from an eagle's PoV is a great example of how mesmerizing the alien worlds of our animal relatives can be: http://youtu.be/G3QrhdfLCO8 http://youtu.be/G3QrhdfLCO8
- allochthon 12y agoIn some of the eagle scenes, one gets the sense that the eagles are taking an interest in the humans below, e.g., following alongside them.
- Balgair 12y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YEyzvtMx3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YEyzvtMx3s Check this one out. At about 40 seconds, look at the eyes of the pelican. They move independently, like a chameleon's. Cool! There is some evidence (can't find the journal, sorry) that states mice and rats do this as well.
- _pmf_ 12y ago> That will be the dawning of an age of widespread empathy with our animals brethren, along with a wave of horror and shame at our previous treatment of them. Because that worked so well with regard to fellow humans.
- vanwesson 12y agoThe world is less violent than ever. The average person's chances of coming to a violent end have been declining for a while: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-... Much of the common violence and atrocities of the past when portrayed in movies and other forms of entertainment are shocking and far removed from the every day experience. See the most recent US Academy Award "Best Picture" winner for an example.
- rquantz 12y agoMy girlfriend was delighted to learn about how intelligent octopuses are today. She was reading an article about whether they can get concussions -- I'll see if I can get it from her. What a strange coincidence to find this on the front page of HN a few hours later.
- influx 12y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baader-Meinhof_phenomenon#Frequency_illusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baader-Meinhof_phenomenon#Frequ...
- Dident 12y agomy classmate's half-sister makes $60 every hour on the internet . She has been out of work for five months but last month her pay check was $20296 just working on the internet for a few hours. check this........... www.Works6.Com
- yonibot 12y agoI took a scuba diving course with an instructor who formerly worked as a diver with a local aquarium, and he related to us that the aquarium had to replace their octopus population every few weeks because they would keep dying of boredom, so to speak. They would put the food in hard-to-open enclosures, but it just wasn't enough. Octopuses need to be challenged and engaged. It gave us food for thought about whether we should be keeping creatures with such a powerful intellect in captivity.
- Udo 12y agoThe fact that relatively high intelligence has arisen from many architectures multiple times on this planet bodes well for the frequency of intelligent life on exoplanets. Even today, there are still biologists who assert the formation of intelligent life is tightly coupled to our specific brand of brain and should hence be considered a huge accident. Yet we see the formation of minds in a lot of places, and they can be almost arbitrarily far removed from the human brain. The octopus is a great example for a radically different neurological substrate. Given enough time and a little bit of luck, some funghi too might evolve a mind of their own as Fuligo Septica already shows some capacity for problem-solving behavior. The argument that human-like intelligence is again another unlikely step discards the myriad of social animals with advanced problem solving capabilities, some of which are even tool users, and some of which have actual languages and cultures. A lot of these have come onto the stage very independently from us, having sprung from far removed genetics - and yet they have enough in common with us that should make us recognize the frequency of species with minds might indeed be high wherever life takes hold.
- hoggle 12y ago"It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English (up to fifty words used in correct context) [even higher since Sagan died] no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." ~ Carl Sagan
- louthy 12y ago"For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons." - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
- SixSigma 12y agoJust ask Eric http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf_BR1StMxQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf_BR1StMxQ
- iandanforth 12y agoI will be happy when people stop referring to intelligence as a binary state. My dog is intelligent, mice are intelligent, nematodes are intelligent. The ability to interact with and adapt to the environment is present in all of these creatures. The degree to which something is intelligent is something we need a much richer vocabulary for. I am sad to say it but this is most clearly put in comic form (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2867#comic http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2867#comic)
- waps 12y ago> The ability to interact with and adapt to the environment is present in all of these creatures. Not a very useful definition as it is a basic property of all living creatures, and some non-living ones. I think it's clear that when we talk about intelligence we mean intelligence of the kind that involves neurons and very-short-feedback-loop problem solving (seconds, not years, like DNA). Of course every animal has that. Some feel that only the ability to do abstract problem solving qualifies as intelligence. Still, humans are not unique in that. Second, I'm pretty sure every cluster of neurons can do that, most just don't have any use for it (humans, and other species, use it for social bonding).
- kfnn 12y agoHere's one kind of classification: http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2006/07/dennetts-creatures.html http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2006/07/dennetts-creatures.htm...
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- sdrothrock 12y agoThe mechanics and actual composition of the eye are completely different, contrary to what the diagram may suggest. The text even points this out with multiple uses of "unlike."
- Niten 12y ago> “Only intelligent animals play—animals like crows and chimps, dogs and humans.” Err, I'm barely knowledgeable in this field (so maybe someone can point out something that I'm missing), but I have to nitpick that this strikes me as poor reasoning. Off the top of my head, juvenile squirrels are known to play[1], along with many other species which we would consider less intelligent than cephalopods or even dogs. This just seems like an odd assertion to come from an expert biologist. [1] http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.anbehav.2003.06.024 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.anbehav.2003.06.024 Really interesting article, though.
- Theodores 12y agoSometimes 'text only' trumps an article that has pictures and moving video. It is good to have one's imagination work overtime rather than have everything 'spelt out' with imagery. At one moment I was imagining an octopus bigger than myself, able to drag me into a tank and maybe eat me whole. The next moment I was learning of an octopus able to fit inside a beer bottle (note to self: be careful what one picks up when scuba diving!). I feel I might actually remember more about the life of the octopus from having read this article and having to engage my imagination than what I might have learned had I sat through some nature programme on TV. Plus it takes less time to read than it does to endure a programme. I also now know things I don't know, such as what it is to make eye contact with an octopus, something that a TV programme could go some way to describe. Aside from the 'wow, intelligence', why is it that those of us with spines lack any 'computing power' in things like our arms? Are there any common sense reasons?
- mcv 12y agoOur arms are far more limited in movement, and probably don't require as much processing power to operate. Easier to do from a relatively remote location like our brain pan, I guess.
- bjeanes 12y ago> Aside from the 'wow, intelligence', why is it that those of us with spines lack any 'computing power' in things like our arms? Are there any common sense reasons? I wonder if the fact that we can't grow them back is a factor. I could imagine that this would make it hard for us to evolve any sort of appendage intelligence that was important to our function.
- GotAnyMegadeth 12y agoI once read about a lab that was doing research on various sea creatures, but primarily crabs. The experiment involved having 100s of a certain type of crab. Every day the crabs were counted, and each day there was quite a few completely missing. The head researcher suspected one of the lab assistants was stealing and selling the crabs, so they set up a camera to watch the lab overnight. It turned out that it wasn't one of the assistants, but instead the lab's octopus. Every night it was waiting until everyone went home, then taking the lid off it's tank, crawling several meters across the floor, opening the lid of the crab tank, eating a few crabs and then crawling back, remembering to replace the lids of both tanks.
- yesbabyyes 12y agoFascinating! Is this the video? http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/wd-ep3-octothief http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/wd-ep3-octothief
- tzs 12y agoWe are fortunate that octopuses do not live long (hence limiting how much knowledge an individual octopus can accumulate to personal experience) and that they do not raise their young (and hence do not get a chance to pass knowledge to the next generation). If not for those factors, I suspect that Mankind would only have whatever access to the oceans that the octopuses decided to allow us.
- JTon 12y agoImagine how different mankind would be today if our ancestors were barred from using boats. Colonialism probably would never have happened.
- jessaustin 12y agoWhat a cool image! I wonder if "civilized" octopi would concentrate their war-making on us, or perhaps on each other? In any case, let's not let them figure out how scuba gear works...
- gus_massa 12y ago> Biologist have long noted the similarities between the eyes of an octopus and the eyes of a human. > Scientists are currently debating whether we and octopuses evolved eyes separately, or whether a common ancestor had the makings of the eye. This is not under debate. This is one of the classical examples of convergent evolution. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution#Eyes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution#Eyes > One of the most well-known examples of convergent evolution is the camera eye of cephalopods (e.g., squid), vertebrates (e.g., mammals) and cnidaria (e.g., box jellies).[22] Their last common ancestor had at most a very simple photoreceptive spot, but a range of processes led to the progressive refinement of this structure to the advanced camera eye — with one subtle difference: The cephalopod eye is "wired" in the opposite direction, with blood and nerve vessels entering from the back of the retina, rather than the front as in vertebrates.[8] The similarity of the structures in other respects, despite the complex nature of the organ, illustrates how there are some biological challenges (e.g. vision) that have an optimal solution. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_eye http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_eye
- thisjepisje 12y agoWe should give octopi the gift of technology and let them overtake the underwater world. Just like in 2001.
- wazoox 12y agoIn the great 1957 scifi novel "Niourk" [1], men have (mostly) abandoned Earth, the oceans dried away and octopi became larger, cleverer and are becoming the dominant species. Spoiler alert: don't look at the wikipedia page in case you plan to read the book :) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niourk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niourk
- reshambabble 12y agoI love the comparison of the octopus with a smart alien. We might not completely understand them, but something about them tells us they are intelligent beings.
- civilian 12y agoI've read a ton of Arthur C. Clarke so I'm really interested in intelligence uplift of other species. How much smarter could octopi be if they didn't die when they mated? Or if they had lifespans 10 times longer than they do now? What if we could train octopi to hunt with humans? Similar to how thousands of years of hunting with wolves has produced the dog, could we breed octopi that help human marine hunters?