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UK police ask blogger to remove UKIP tweets

93 points by polemic 12y ago

blakeshall 12y ago
Anyone have any more information on this? Going off just the post leaves a lot of questions.
- ed_blackburn 12y ago
  No. But I suspect his local MP will ask the Police to investigate. The officer who asked the police to pop round will probably be nagged for being naive. There may be a weak apology and it'll blow over. The damage I suspect will be for the politician who attempted to misuse a complaint about online bullying as political intimidation. UKIP won't be affected because they're a protest party, most people voting for them don't care about their tactics they see them as a single-issue party. Edit: fat fingers and predictive text!
tormeh 12y ago
Police do, and should take peaceful action without any police authority. Calming things down before they happen and that kind of thing. Seeing as these officers didn't know what Twitter was, it's pretty probable that someone called the police and told them that the author was picking a fight on the internet and might cause trouble. It basically sounds like a less dramatic type of SWATing.
- wyager 12y ago
  >Police do, and should take peaceful action without any police authority. Coming to someone's house and bothering them about something political they said online is not "peaceful".
  - robhu 12y ago
    Could you please explain how it is not peaceful?
    - wyager 12y ago
      Just because they don't physically beat the guy up or shoot him doesn't mean it's peaceful. When someone in a position of authority uses their authority to try to bully you into doing something, that is not peaceful.
      - robhu 12y ago
        I don't know if there's a difference here between the US and the UK (I'm from the UK, like the Twitter person, I assume you may be in the US). I don't see how the police did not act peacefully. He would have had the option as to whether to allow the police in or not, and I don't see how them asking questions about what he did is bullying. The police did state several times that he had not committed a crime, and they were seeking information.
        seabee 12y ago
        The alternative is you have the police judge you as a timewaster before investigating your claims, instead of after :)
    - trustfundbaby 12y ago
      its called political intimidation. thats why its anything but peaceful.
    - freshhawk 12y ago
      You could make an argument that it's technically "peaceful" since it wasn't violent. But it was clearly threatening, and meant to be be threatening. It's not like they were investigating any wrongdoing, since they acknowledged there was none. They were there to send the message that he had an enemy that pulled the strings of the law. It was intimidation. It's technically peaceful in the same way that me raising my fist while staring you in the eyes is technically peaceful, although that's a very barbaric type of threat while this was a very civilized one.
      - robhu 12y ago
  - prawn 12y ago
    Doesn't sound like bothering to me. Gave him a valuable heads up to someone was trying to stir up trouble for him. The police sounded exceptionally polite to me.
nemof 12y ago
here's the poster in question: https://twitter.com/MichaelAbberton/status/463299139917213696/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/MichaelAbberton/status/46329913991721369... for context for non UK folk, the guy posting the story is a green (left of the center, strong environmental politics), and UKIP who are the current talk de jour in the UK are a rightwing nationalist party who are more acceptable in the UK than just blatantly supporting the BNP. Oh, and if the police got involved, to be frank, assuming it happened like op said, that's absolute bullshit and basically intimidation. Considering the reach that tweet/poster image has had, I wouldn't be surprised if someone with connections within UKIP had pulled some strings to get the police to visit this guy.
- seabee 12y ago
  Unless policy has changed in 5 years, you don't need to pull strings to make the police visit somebody who made tweets you don't like. You just need to make the right noises and be sufficiently offended such that the police will check whether there is a genuine problem or not. It's pretty scary getting a phone call or visit from the police, but they make it quite clear you're not in trouble, at which point it's mostly infuriating that someone got butthurt enough to trouble you in this manner.
  - ajb 12y ago
    True, but they should not have asked him to take it down. I can think of scenarios where it would be reasonable for the police to ask someone to stop legal behavior - "please stop pissing off your neighbours" - but this is not one of them.
    - seabee 12y ago
      I was asked to remove offending content too. Like OP they admitted they couldn't make me, but it was implied that it would appease the offended party and make things easier (for them, at least, since it makes it more likely the crank would stop wasting their time). It certainly wasn't suggested in the way the Mafia might suggest you pay for protection, if that's what you're thinking. There was no sense of authority when they asked it. It sounds like the same thing happened to OP.
skimmas 12y ago
isn't the right thing to do in this kind of situations to say nothing, allow nothing and ask for the presence of a lawyer?
- sdrinf 12y ago
  If this would've been in the US, absolutely. The quality of connection between UK citizens, and law enforcement is significantly different, due to actions on both sides: specifically: * UK police tends to seek full understanding prior to taking any action * The standard police unit is not armed, and their legal rights are significantly limited * In general, their strategy aims for avoiding situations to escalate This allows for the vast majority of situations to be resolved peacefully, and in mutual respect. I leave drawing conclusions, and comparisons to the US armed force to the dear reader.
  - polemic 12y ago
    On that topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles "In the British model of policing, police officers are citizens in uniform. They exercise their powers to police their fellow citizens with the implicit consent of their fellow citizens. Policing by consent is the phrase used to describe this. It denotes that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a general consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, demonstrating integrity in exercising those powers and their accountability for doing so."
    - switch007 12y ago
      Oh, please. Ethical?! I certainly don't consent to kettling and acts such as the brutal killing of Ian Tomlinson.
  - Crito 12y ago
    What incentive would the author have to talk with the police (let alone invite them into his home) in this instance? I understand that the police in the UK may not be as menacing as they are in the US, but if nothing is in it for him (and as far as I can tell, nothing was), then why would he allow himself to be questioned in such a way? If I have nothing to gain from talking with the police, I never would, even if I also felt that I had nothing to lose.

93 points by polemic 12y ago

blakeshall 12y ago

Anyone have any more information on this? Going off just the post leaves a lot of questions.

ed_blackburn 12y ago
No. But I suspect his local MP will ask the Police to investigate. The officer who asked the police to pop round will probably be nagged for being naive. There may be a weak apology and it'll blow over. The damage I suspect will be for the politician who attempted to misuse a complaint about online bullying as political intimidation. UKIP won't be affected because they're a protest party, most people voting for them don't care about their tactics they see them as a single-issue party. Edit: fat fingers and predictive text!

tormeh 12y ago

Police do, and should take peaceful action without any police authority. Calming things down before they happen and that kind of thing. Seeing as these officers didn't know what Twitter was, it's pretty probable that someone called the police and told them that the author was picking a fight on the internet and might cause trouble. It basically sounds like a less dramatic type of SWATing.

wyager 12y ago
>Police do, and should take peaceful action without any police authority. Coming to someone's house and bothering them about something political they said online is not "peaceful".
- robhu 12y ago
  Could you please explain how it is not peaceful?
  - wyager 12y ago
    Just because they don't physically beat the guy up or shoot him doesn't mean it's peaceful. When someone in a position of authority uses their authority to try to bully you into doing something, that is not peaceful.
    - robhu 12y ago
      I don't know if there's a difference here between the US and the UK (I'm from the UK, like the Twitter person, I assume you may be in the US). I don't see how the police did not act peacefully. He would have had the option as to whether to allow the police in or not, and I don't see how them asking questions about what he did is bullying. The police did state several times that he had not committed a crime, and they were seeking information.
      - seabee 12y ago
        The alternative is you have the police judge you as a timewaster before investigating your claims, instead of after :)
  - trustfundbaby 12y ago
    its called political intimidation. thats why its anything but peaceful.
  - freshhawk 12y ago
    You could make an argument that it's technically "peaceful" since it wasn't violent. But it was clearly threatening, and meant to be be threatening. It's not like they were investigating any wrongdoing, since they acknowledged there was none. They were there to send the message that he had an enemy that pulled the strings of the law. It was intimidation. It's technically peaceful in the same way that me raising my fist while staring you in the eyes is technically peaceful, although that's a very barbaric type of threat while this was a very civilized one.
    - robhu 12y ago
- prawn 12y ago
  Doesn't sound like bothering to me. Gave him a valuable heads up to someone was trying to stir up trouble for him. The police sounded exceptionally polite to me.

nemof 12y ago

here's the poster in question: https://twitter.com/MichaelAbberton/status/463299139917213696/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/MichaelAbberton/status/46329913991721369... for context for non UK folk, the guy posting the story is a green (left of the center, strong environmental politics), and UKIP who are the current talk de jour in the UK are a rightwing nationalist party who are more acceptable in the UK than just blatantly supporting the BNP. Oh, and if the police got involved, to be frank, assuming it happened like op said, that's absolute bullshit and basically intimidation. Considering the reach that tweet/poster image has had, I wouldn't be surprised if someone with connections within UKIP had pulled some strings to get the police to visit this guy.

seabee 12y ago
Unless policy has changed in 5 years, you don't need to pull strings to make the police visit somebody who made tweets you don't like. You just need to make the right noises and be sufficiently offended such that the police will check whether there is a genuine problem or not. It's pretty scary getting a phone call or visit from the police, but they make it quite clear you're not in trouble, at which point it's mostly infuriating that someone got butthurt enough to trouble you in this manner.
- ajb 12y ago
  True, but they should not have asked him to take it down. I can think of scenarios where it would be reasonable for the police to ask someone to stop legal behavior - "please stop pissing off your neighbours" - but this is not one of them.
  - seabee 12y ago
    I was asked to remove offending content too. Like OP they admitted they couldn't make me, but it was implied that it would appease the offended party and make things easier (for them, at least, since it makes it more likely the crank would stop wasting their time). It certainly wasn't suggested in the way the Mafia might suggest you pay for protection, if that's what you're thinking. There was no sense of authority when they asked it. It sounds like the same thing happened to OP.

skimmas 12y ago

isn't the right thing to do in this kind of situations to say nothing, allow nothing and ask for the presence of a lawyer?

sdrinf 12y ago
If this would've been in the US, absolutely. The quality of connection between UK citizens, and law enforcement is significantly different, due to actions on both sides: specifically: * UK police tends to seek full understanding prior to taking any action * The standard police unit is not armed, and their legal rights are significantly limited * In general, their strategy aims for avoiding situations to escalate This allows for the vast majority of situations to be resolved peacefully, and in mutual respect. I leave drawing conclusions, and comparisons to the US armed force to the dear reader.
- polemic 12y ago
  On that topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles "In the British model of policing, police officers are citizens in uniform. They exercise their powers to police their fellow citizens with the implicit consent of their fellow citizens. Policing by consent is the phrase used to describe this. It denotes that the legitimacy of policing in the eyes of the public is based upon a general consensus of support that follows from transparency about their powers, demonstrating integrity in exercising those powers and their accountability for doing so."
  - switch007 12y ago
    Oh, please. Ethical?! I certainly don't consent to kettling and acts such as the brutal killing of Ian Tomlinson.
- Crito 12y ago
  What incentive would the author have to talk with the police (let alone invite them into his home) in this instance? I understand that the police in the UK may not be as menacing as they are in the US, but if nothing is in it for him (and as far as I can tell, nothing was), then why would he allow himself to be questioned in such a way? If I have nothing to gain from talking with the police, I never would, even if I also felt that I had nothing to lose.