5 ms·

Code Monkey Island – board game to teach kids programming

52 points by troyastorino 12y ago

dang 12y ago
We changed the url from [1]. Since this is a fundraiser, the Kickstarter page is arguably the original source (and indeed [1] links to it). 1. http://codemonkeyplanet.com/ http://codemonkeyplanet.com/
brandonhsiao 12y ago
This is a genuine question; not trying to be cynical or troll: is there any chance these games actually deter children from learning to program? I personally feel it was more satisfying as a child just to open up Visual Basic and drag and drop buttons and hide windows and whatever. If I'd been introduced to programming through a game meant to introduce kids to programming, I'm not sure I would've developed the same enthusiasm.
- null_ptr 12y ago
  I found that I reasoned everyday things in a more organized and structured manner once I really got into programming. I think it's an interesting and worthwhile idea to try to teach children this way of thinking, regardless if it will lead to them programming computers or not.
quotient 12y ago
I think "board game to teach kids programming" is a misdescription. This is a board game that teaches kids to think like programmers --- it teaches elementary logic skills and makes them familiar with programming concepts. It doesn't teach them anything about actual programming, though it makes them better potential programmers. I think this game is worthwhile as a general learning exercise, i.e. to develop structured thinking, but with regard to programming, it is a misdirection of efforts. To elaborate: there's a certain magic moment when you write your first program. You realize that you can make the computer do things. First, you just have it print a test message. WOW. Then you have it add two numbers. It works, and you feel a surge of emotion: with this tool, anything is possible. It's an incredibly powerful and liberating feeling. It is very persuasive, and often gives rise to an immediate fascination. The way to "teach kids programming" is to give them that experience, to let them feel that Eureka!-moment. Teaching kids about logical statements, loops, etc. is neat stuff, and will certainly make them into better thinkers, but it does not make them (significantly) likelier to open up a REPL and type in "print 'Hello World'". And that is the critical point: if a parent wants their child to pick up programming, they'll have to get them to actually program. Playing games about conditional statements and basic logic is only very tangentially related to getting children to write and run code. (The same complaint goes for other products in this space: picture-books, games, etc. to bring children closer to programming have been released in great number recently.) Perhaps there is some sort of general fear that actually opening up a terminal, notepad, etc. is somehow an intrinsically difficult task (likely because most parents have no idea how it works, either), so parents try to edge closer to programming with these educational toys, but the problem is that "learning to code" is not something that can be done by gradual immersion. A child can learn to swim by dipping their toes into the water and then slowly wading into the pool while moving their arms --- a couple hours of this, and they'll learn to swim. However, with coding, the process is not as gradual: at some point, the child has to open up an editor and start typing. An effective educational tool that "teaches kids programming" really must do only one thing: help them make this step.
- brandonhsiao 12y ago
  Two things limit children from learning to program: ability and enthusiasm. Resources to teach programming to "kids" tend to optimize for fixing the former, but in my opinion it's the latter that matters so much more.
- joshvm 12y ago
  The easiest way to teach kids how to program is via Lego Mindstorms. I don't know a single programmer who didn't play with Lego as a child. The Mindstorms kit is expensive, but you can do a lot with it and it also teaches the basics of sensors and robotics. Graphical languages are great ways to introduce programming without the rather inane things you need to learn like syntax. In hindsight Mindstorms was my first exposure to programming and I didn't even notice. I just enjoyed solving the problems in the book and making the little robot do what I wanted.
  - thsealienbstrds 12y ago
    Pretty neat that they have this now. When I was young I didn't have Mindstorms but there was the Lego that allowed you to create running electrical parts. Yeah... I sure played a lot with Lego. Now I play a lot with Haskell. Look mom, no state! Except the problem is I can't show this to my mother, she does not understand it. :(
  - patio11 12y ago
    I wrote my first program before seeing my first Lego block, a toy which I never got in to. I realize this might sound unlikely, but it was cheaper to program than to buy Legos, in a manner which made a difference for my family at the time.
    - joshvm 12y ago
      Lego is exorbitantly expensive, though it is virtually indestructible. I was given Mindstorms for Christmas one year, but I was only able to play with it at my grandparents' house where the computer was good enough (i.e. had more than 16MB RAM).
roschdal 12y ago
This is a legal battle waiting to happen over the Monkey Island trademarks of LucasArts.
- highace 12y ago
  From reading the title I was hoping the article was going to be about the coding of Monkey Island, or an open source port of it or something. Which I would have preferred..!
mdorazio 12y ago
This is an interesting approach that seems like a good complement to Robot Turtles. Whereas Robot Turtles takes a more open-ended "create your program and go" approach, Code Monkey Planet is focused on strategic use of more complex control structures. I'm personally on the fence about the recent movement to teach kids programming at a young age as evidenced by all of the financially successful Kickstarter projects and summer camps aiming to do so. Personally, I would rather see things that teach kids about programming and then let them decide whether they want to pursue it or not.
danjones 12y ago
Damn, with a name like that I was hoping for a game of self discovery as a young man quests to become a swashbuckling pirate.
- Pelerin 12y ago
  Who can hold his breath for ten minutes!
bstar77 12y ago
This is not the Monkey Island you're looking for...
- lighthazard 12y ago
  Made me a little upset when I got to the kickstarter page.
barbs 12y ago
When I think of programming board-games, I immediately think of RoboRally: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18/roborally http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18/roborally While it doesn't necessarily teach you skills that would be practical in the real world, it's a ton of fun, and all the programmers I know that have played it have really enjoyed it.
mratzloff 12y ago
I hate to be "that guy", but isn't "code monkey" a derogatory term? And isn't there, you know, no actual coding involved in the game? I would just call it something like "Island of Monkeys" instead. Sneak in the logical and programming concepts like RoboRally does.
- eddieroger 12y ago
  I think "Code Monkey" is only self-deprecating in our community, but not necessarily a bad thing. I interned for a web shop that called the developers "code monkeys" and designers "pixel junkies," and I didn't take it as an insult. Unless the supposition is like the million monkeys who wrote Shakespeare thing. But I don't mind the term, and use it self-descriptively all the time.

52 points by troyastorino 12y ago

dang 12y ago

We changed the url from [1]. Since this is a fundraiser, the Kickstarter page is arguably the original source (and indeed [1] links to it). 1. http://codemonkeyplanet.com/ http://codemonkeyplanet.com/

brandonhsiao 12y ago

This is a genuine question; not trying to be cynical or troll: is there any chance these games actually deter children from learning to program? I personally feel it was more satisfying as a child just to open up Visual Basic and drag and drop buttons and hide windows and whatever. If I'd been introduced to programming through a game meant to introduce kids to programming, I'm not sure I would've developed the same enthusiasm.

null_ptr 12y ago
I found that I reasoned everyday things in a more organized and structured manner once I really got into programming. I think it's an interesting and worthwhile idea to try to teach children this way of thinking, regardless if it will lead to them programming computers or not.

quotient 12y ago

I think "board game to teach kids programming" is a misdescription. This is a board game that teaches kids to think like programmers --- it teaches elementary logic skills and makes them familiar with programming concepts. It doesn't teach them anything about actual programming, though it makes them better potential programmers. I think this game is worthwhile as a general learning exercise, i.e. to develop structured thinking, but with regard to programming, it is a misdirection of efforts. To elaborate: there's a certain magic moment when you write your first program. You realize that you can make the computer do things. First, you just have it print a test message. WOW. Then you have it add two numbers. It works, and you feel a surge of emotion: with this tool, anything is possible. It's an incredibly powerful and liberating feeling. It is very persuasive, and often gives rise to an immediate fascination. The way to "teach kids programming" is to give them that experience, to let them feel that Eureka!-moment. Teaching kids about logical statements, loops, etc. is neat stuff, and will certainly make them into better thinkers, but it does not make them (significantly) likelier to open up a REPL and type in "print 'Hello World'". And that is the critical point: if a parent wants their child to pick up programming, they'll have to get them to actually program. Playing games about conditional statements and basic logic is only very tangentially related to getting children to write and run code. (The same complaint goes for other products in this space: picture-books, games, etc. to bring children closer to programming have been released in great number recently.) Perhaps there is some sort of general fear that actually opening up a terminal, notepad, etc. is somehow an intrinsically difficult task (likely because most parents have no idea how it works, either), so parents try to edge closer to programming with these educational toys, but the problem is that "learning to code" is not something that can be done by gradual immersion. A child can learn to swim by dipping their toes into the water and then slowly wading into the pool while moving their arms --- a couple hours of this, and they'll learn to swim. However, with coding, the process is not as gradual: at some point, the child has to open up an editor and start typing. An effective educational tool that "teaches kids programming" really must do only one thing: help them make this step.

brandonhsiao 12y ago
Two things limit children from learning to program: ability and enthusiasm. Resources to teach programming to "kids" tend to optimize for fixing the former, but in my opinion it's the latter that matters so much more.
joshvm 12y ago
The easiest way to teach kids how to program is via Lego Mindstorms. I don't know a single programmer who didn't play with Lego as a child. The Mindstorms kit is expensive, but you can do a lot with it and it also teaches the basics of sensors and robotics. Graphical languages are great ways to introduce programming without the rather inane things you need to learn like syntax. In hindsight Mindstorms was my first exposure to programming and I didn't even notice. I just enjoyed solving the problems in the book and making the little robot do what I wanted.
- thsealienbstrds 12y ago
  Pretty neat that they have this now. When I was young I didn't have Mindstorms but there was the Lego that allowed you to create running electrical parts. Yeah... I sure played a lot with Lego. Now I play a lot with Haskell. Look mom, no state! Except the problem is I can't show this to my mother, she does not understand it. :(
- patio11 12y ago
  I wrote my first program before seeing my first Lego block, a toy which I never got in to. I realize this might sound unlikely, but it was cheaper to program than to buy Legos, in a manner which made a difference for my family at the time.
  - joshvm 12y ago
    Lego is exorbitantly expensive, though it is virtually indestructible. I was given Mindstorms for Christmas one year, but I was only able to play with it at my grandparents' house where the computer was good enough (i.e. had more than 16MB RAM).

roschdal 12y ago

This is a legal battle waiting to happen over the Monkey Island trademarks of LucasArts.

highace 12y ago
From reading the title I was hoping the article was going to be about the coding of Monkey Island, or an open source port of it or something. Which I would have preferred..!

mdorazio 12y ago

This is an interesting approach that seems like a good complement to Robot Turtles. Whereas Robot Turtles takes a more open-ended "create your program and go" approach, Code Monkey Planet is focused on strategic use of more complex control structures. I'm personally on the fence about the recent movement to teach kids programming at a young age as evidenced by all of the financially successful Kickstarter projects and summer camps aiming to do so. Personally, I would rather see things that teach kids about programming and then let them decide whether they want to pursue it or not.

danjones 12y ago

Damn, with a name like that I was hoping for a game of self discovery as a young man quests to become a swashbuckling pirate.

Pelerin 12y ago
Who can hold his breath for ten minutes!

bstar77 12y ago

This is not the Monkey Island you're looking for...

lighthazard 12y ago
Made me a little upset when I got to the kickstarter page.

barbs 12y ago

When I think of programming board-games, I immediately think of RoboRally: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18/roborally http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18/roborally While it doesn't necessarily teach you skills that would be practical in the real world, it's a ton of fun, and all the programmers I know that have played it have really enjoyed it.

mratzloff 12y ago

I hate to be "that guy", but isn't "code monkey" a derogatory term? And isn't there, you know, no actual coding involved in the game? I would just call it something like "Island of Monkeys" instead. Sneak in the logical and programming concepts like RoboRally does.

eddieroger 12y ago
I think "Code Monkey" is only self-deprecating in our community, but not necessarily a bad thing. I interned for a web shop that called the developers "code monkeys" and designers "pixel junkies," and I didn't take it as an insult. Unless the supposition is like the million monkeys who wrote Shakespeare thing. But I don't mind the term, and use it self-descriptively all the time.