4 ms·

Why nobody is showing concerns about her to the USPTO? Do US Government agencies have any politics about the general public concerned with the work of the indiv

by u124556 12y ago

Why nobody is showing concerns about her to the USPTO? Do US Government agencies have any politics about the general public concerned with the work of the individuals working there? What about other examiners?

sillysaurus3 12y ago
Why nobody is showing concerns about her to the USPTO? This feels a little too close to being a witchhunt. Once we start talking about "why isn't the internet reporting these people to their employers?" the conversation has stopped being about ideas. EDIT: The concerns seem justified. I'm just saying that maybe we shouldn't be trying to use HN to organize the end of individual careers. Calling attention to the fact that this patent was examined by particular individuals seems ok. It's just a fact. Using HN as an organizational vehicle to help angry people on the internet get some specific people fired, by name, would be a troubling new trend for HN. We're a community, not a task force.
- X4 12y ago
  absolutely.. stop here! It's the system not a poor woman working for a giant money printing industry! Challenge the status quo instead of sniping out individuals.
  - differentView 12y ago
    Not everyone has the ability to do both. People should do what they can. Even though I can't invent a new clean energy source, I try to reduce energy use where I can.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  It's an ugly trend, sure. But I think there's something to be said for reporting people to their employers when your concern is that they're doing their job badly, where "badly" here might be read as "incompetently" or "perniciously". How do you feel about filing complaints against cops for, say, beating up arrestees? What about taking bribes? If reporting a cop for taking bribes is OK, why is reporting a patent examiner for awarding a patent in the face of prior art bad? What about reporting a clerk to their manager for speaking to you rudely? Not only does this happen all the time, I don't see a lot of people saying hey, lay off the rude clerks. edit: a pair of summary examples: "X is a satanist". This doesn't impact X's performance as a patent officer, or really anything else. "X couldn't recognize prior art if it was disclosed in the patent application". This directly impacts performance as a patent officer, and can properly be reported to X's employer.
  - sillysaurus3 12y ago
    How do you feel about filing complaints against cops for, say, beating up arrestees? What about taking bribes? Oh, there's no question: I love being beaten by police officers! And bribery is good for the soul, don't you think? Seriously though, using HN as a way of organizing large numbers of people to action against specific employees is probably stepping a bit too far. That's almost the very definition of an internet witchhunt. Getting these people fired won't fix the underlying problems.
    - thaumasiotes 12y ago
      > Oh, there's no question: I love being beaten by police officers! And bribery is good for the soul, don't you think? Sure, I picked a favorable example. I go on to directly ask you about the analogy: If reporting a cop for taking bribes is OK, why is reporting a patent examiner for awarding a patent in the face of prior art bad? Do you have a response? > Getting these people fired won't fix the underlying problems I'd say that depends on how many people get fired. If the effort to throw them out persists, the patent office will change. Getting one person fired, calling it a victory, and going home is unlikely to fix any underlying problems.
      - cinquemb 12y ago
        >I'd say that depends on how many people get fired. If the effort to throw them out persists, the patent office will change. Makes you wonder when someone will throw up a crowd-sourcing website that tracks patent examiners where people can submit/link to questionable patents they awarded and upvote/down vote to get some kind of consensus. I also wonder if people would really care enough to take part in something like that.
        maxerickson 12y ago
        Ask Patents seems to be active enough: http://patents.stackexchange.com/ http://patents.stackexchange.com/ I guess they aren't interested in focusing on individuals though. It's funny how branding works, I searched for "patent overflow" to find the site.
- natch 12y ago
  Good point. On the other hand, this isn't a case of non-disprovable accusations based on superstition. What it looks like is a case of incompetence. Surely not the only one at the USPTO, but that doesn't excuse it.
- zo1 12y ago
  Ah yes, the old "just doing my job" line. If people can't hide behind that excuse, they'll be more inclined to act like responsible citizens and human beings. So please, this is not a witch hunt. It's merely us saying that normal people, like you and me, are behind some of the madness that could potentially affect a giant section of the population. Treat them like human beings, and maybe they'll take the initiative next time without our prompting.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  A witch hunt would involve gaming the reporting system to hassle people for irrelevant reasons. This is at least arguably discussing how to report a legitimate concern.
  - Crito 12y ago
    > A witch hunt would involve gaming the reporting system to hassle people for irrelevant reasons. Specifically I would say that a witch hunt is characterized by an assumption of guilt, combined with a high false-positive rate, combined with offers for leniency if the accused points their finger at others. That's how the House Un-American Activities Commission did it, and those are the parallels between the HUAC and Salem that Arthur Miller identified. Merely accusing somebody of doing their job poorly isn't anything like a witch hunt.
acdha 12y ago
> Why nobody is showing concerns about her to the USPTO? What are the odds that her supervisor has no idea what's going on? They either have a broken quality review process or, more likely, have been told to do more with less for so long that people know they aren't doing good work but need to deliver numbers. Hiring people to work in the federal government is a bitter political issue so it's almost certain that they're understaffed, particularly since the legally-mandated process and payscale will complicate hiring technical experts in fields which pay well. In either case, you can complain about this person in particular but you really should be contacting your congressional representatives to request both legal reform and increased budget / accountability for the USPTO to avoid some congressman's “savings” costing industry billions when a bad patent is issued.

by u124556 12y ago

sillysaurus3 12y ago

Why nobody is showing concerns about her to the USPTO? This feels a little too close to being a witchhunt. Once we start talking about "why isn't the internet reporting these people to their employers?" the conversation has stopped being about ideas. EDIT: The concerns seem justified. I'm just saying that maybe we shouldn't be trying to use HN to organize the end of individual careers. Calling attention to the fact that this patent was examined by particular individuals seems ok. It's just a fact. Using HN as an organizational vehicle to help angry people on the internet get some specific people fired, by name, would be a troubling new trend for HN. We're a community, not a task force.

X4 12y ago
absolutely.. stop here! It's the system not a poor woman working for a giant money printing industry! Challenge the status quo instead of sniping out individuals.
- differentView 12y ago
  Not everyone has the ability to do both. People should do what they can. Even though I can't invent a new clean energy source, I try to reduce energy use where I can.
thaumasiotes 12y ago
It's an ugly trend, sure. But I think there's something to be said for reporting people to their employers when your concern is that they're doing their job badly, where "badly" here might be read as "incompetently" or "perniciously". How do you feel about filing complaints against cops for, say, beating up arrestees? What about taking bribes? If reporting a cop for taking bribes is OK, why is reporting a patent examiner for awarding a patent in the face of prior art bad? What about reporting a clerk to their manager for speaking to you rudely? Not only does this happen all the time, I don't see a lot of people saying hey, lay off the rude clerks. edit: a pair of summary examples: "X is a satanist". This doesn't impact X's performance as a patent officer, or really anything else. "X couldn't recognize prior art if it was disclosed in the patent application". This directly impacts performance as a patent officer, and can properly be reported to X's employer.
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  How do you feel about filing complaints against cops for, say, beating up arrestees? What about taking bribes? Oh, there's no question: I love being beaten by police officers! And bribery is good for the soul, don't you think? Seriously though, using HN as a way of organizing large numbers of people to action against specific employees is probably stepping a bit too far. That's almost the very definition of an internet witchhunt. Getting these people fired won't fix the underlying problems.
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    > Oh, there's no question: I love being beaten by police officers! And bribery is good for the soul, don't you think? Sure, I picked a favorable example. I go on to directly ask you about the analogy: If reporting a cop for taking bribes is OK, why is reporting a patent examiner for awarding a patent in the face of prior art bad? Do you have a response? > Getting these people fired won't fix the underlying problems I'd say that depends on how many people get fired. If the effort to throw them out persists, the patent office will change. Getting one person fired, calling it a victory, and going home is unlikely to fix any underlying problems.
    - cinquemb 12y ago
      >I'd say that depends on how many people get fired. If the effort to throw them out persists, the patent office will change. Makes you wonder when someone will throw up a crowd-sourcing website that tracks patent examiners where people can submit/link to questionable patents they awarded and upvote/down vote to get some kind of consensus. I also wonder if people would really care enough to take part in something like that.
      - maxerickson 12y ago
        Ask Patents seems to be active enough: http://patents.stackexchange.com/ http://patents.stackexchange.com/ I guess they aren't interested in focusing on individuals though. It's funny how branding works, I searched for "patent overflow" to find the site.
natch 12y ago
Good point. On the other hand, this isn't a case of non-disprovable accusations based on superstition. What it looks like is a case of incompetence. Surely not the only one at the USPTO, but that doesn't excuse it.
zo1 12y ago
Ah yes, the old "just doing my job" line. If people can't hide behind that excuse, they'll be more inclined to act like responsible citizens and human beings. So please, this is not a witch hunt. It's merely us saying that normal people, like you and me, are behind some of the madness that could potentially affect a giant section of the population. Treat them like human beings, and maybe they'll take the initiative next time without our prompting.
maxerickson 12y ago
A witch hunt would involve gaming the reporting system to hassle people for irrelevant reasons. This is at least arguably discussing how to report a legitimate concern.
- Crito 12y ago
  > A witch hunt would involve gaming the reporting system to hassle people for irrelevant reasons. Specifically I would say that a witch hunt is characterized by an assumption of guilt, combined with a high false-positive rate, combined with offers for leniency if the accused points their finger at others. That's how the House Un-American Activities Commission did it, and those are the parallels between the HUAC and Salem that Arthur Miller identified. Merely accusing somebody of doing their job poorly isn't anything like a witch hunt.

acdha 12y ago

> Why nobody is showing concerns about her to the USPTO? What are the odds that her supervisor has no idea what's going on? They either have a broken quality review process or, more likely, have been told to do more with less for so long that people know they aren't doing good work but need to deliver numbers. Hiring people to work in the federal government is a bitter political issue so it's almost certain that they're understaffed, particularly since the legally-mandated process and payscale will complicate hiring technical experts in fields which pay well. In either case, you can complain about this person in particular but you really should be contacting your congressional representatives to request both legal reform and increased budget / accountability for the USPTO to avoid some congressman's “savings” costing industry billions when a bad patent is issued.