4 ms·

Is C++ still needed?

16 points by davidsantoro 17y ago

ilyak 17y ago
Nope!
kaitnieks 17y ago
C++ and Delphi are almost the last of few ones left to generate proper Windows exe files. DotNET is great for business applications but when you think about creating mass products, you have to keep returning to C++ and friends.
- ilyak 17y ago
  Factor generates stand alone images.
  - nrr 17y ago
    Not only that, but Factor generates application bundles -- not just the binary -- for OS X when asked to. At least, it did the last time I checked.
- mahmud 17y ago
  That's just utter BS, nearly all major programming languages are capable of generating "proper" non-dotnet win32 binaries. Everyday I build our Win32 app from Mingw using plain C.
- olliesaunders 17y ago
  Yeah you're forgetting C.
chanux 17y ago
"Conclusion? C++ sometimes is the best choice, sometimes not." Isn't that the case for any programing language?
- dkersten 17y ago
  Well... not "any", theres some I can't really see would ever be the "best" choice. Lolcode anyone? (I'm sure theres non-joke languages too)
  - calcnerd256 17y ago
    obligatory mention of brainf
DanielBMarkham 17y ago
With all due respect, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. There might be a case to be made to eliminate C++, but it's best made by somebody who knows more than this guy. This is really a terrible submission.
- mtarnovan 17y ago
  No respect due here. This guy truly doesn't know what he's talking about. "C++ is slow". LOL. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gpp&lang2=csharp&box=1#title http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=al... http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gpp&lang2=java&box=1 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=al...
  - vilya 17y ago
    Reading the article, it sounded like he was comparing the speed of some unspecified ORM library in each language. If so, I suspect he may have been comparing a naive hand-rolled implementation in C++ to something like Hibernate/NHibernate which has many years of development and optimisation behind it. The lessons to draw from this, if any, are that C++ code isn't automatically faster than Java or C# code: you have to make it so; and that Java/C# have some useful high-quality libraries which save you the need to roll your own solution.
    - tamas 17y ago
      Actually, object creation on the heap can be quite slower in C++ than in Java, at least if you are not using a custom allocator. The standard allocator in C++(using malloc) is SLOW.
      - Nelson69 17y ago
        The original article was terrible, so normally I wouldn't comment but I'll attempt to improve the discussion.. Do applications in C++ get modeled the same way as they would in Java or C#? Allocation speed doesn't quite seem like an apples to apples comparison.
greyman 17y ago
I have experience programming in large teams in both C++ (~10 years) and C# (~3 years), and my feeling is that the overall development is really quicker in C#. It's a large windows-only standalone app where speed is very important. But if my team have to build such app with cross-platform requirement, I still think C++ would be the choice. [with the similar arguments the author uses at the end of his rant]
- uhgibuig 17y ago
  Or if you need to use any other libraries. C# is great assuming everything you need is in .Net. As soon as you need a decent maths library or a screengraph or some image processing it involves a lot more work.
wglb 17y ago
Often done--a list of what is important in language choice, followed by the choice we wanted to make anyway: "Nethertheless, we choosed C++ as our language." C++ is slow, but in time to learn or write, but not necessarily in execution.
olliesaunders 17y ago
It's difficult to imagine games being written in Java or C# and being faster than C++.
- steiger 17y ago
  Some say that Jake 2 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake2 ) actually ran faster than Quake 2. Of course there are a number of points to consider here, like the oldness of the Quake 2 code (thus a lack of optimization for modern computers). Anyway, just a curiosity :)
nrr 17y ago
This thing reads like a USENET troll post. No joke.
humbledrone 17y ago
FTA: "C++ isn't open to other languages" Obviously the author has not heard of boost::python -- it provides an extremely easy way to interface Python and C++, including classes in one language that inherit from classes in the other. EDIT: Oh, yeah, and SWIG.

16 points by davidsantoro 17y ago

ilyak 17y ago

Nope!

C++ and Delphi are almost the last of few ones left to generate proper Windows exe files. DotNET is great for business applications but when you think about creating mass products, you have to keep returning to C++ and friends.

ilyak 17y ago
Factor generates stand alone images.
- nrr 17y ago
  Not only that, but Factor generates application bundles -- not just the binary -- for OS X when asked to. At least, it did the last time I checked.
mahmud 17y ago
That's just utter BS, nearly all major programming languages are capable of generating "proper" non-dotnet win32 binaries. Everyday I build our Win32 app from Mingw using plain C.
olliesaunders 17y ago
Yeah you're forgetting C.

chanux 17y ago

"Conclusion? C++ sometimes is the best choice, sometimes not." Isn't that the case for any programing language?

dkersten 17y ago
Well... not "any", theres some I can't really see would ever be the "best" choice. Lolcode anyone? (I'm sure theres non-joke languages too)
- calcnerd256 17y ago
  obligatory mention of brainf

DanielBMarkham 17y ago

With all due respect, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. There might be a case to be made to eliminate C++, but it's best made by somebody who knows more than this guy. This is really a terrible submission.

mtarnovan 17y ago
No respect due here. This guy truly doesn't know what he's talking about. "C++ is slow". LOL. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gpp&lang2=csharp&box=1#title http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=al... http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=gpp&lang2=java&box=1 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=al...
- vilya 17y ago
  Reading the article, it sounded like he was comparing the speed of some unspecified ORM library in each language. If so, I suspect he may have been comparing a naive hand-rolled implementation in C++ to something like Hibernate/NHibernate which has many years of development and optimisation behind it. The lessons to draw from this, if any, are that C++ code isn't automatically faster than Java or C# code: you have to make it so; and that Java/C# have some useful high-quality libraries which save you the need to roll your own solution.
  - tamas 17y ago
    Actually, object creation on the heap can be quite slower in C++ than in Java, at least if you are not using a custom allocator. The standard allocator in C++(using malloc) is SLOW.
    - Nelson69 17y ago
      The original article was terrible, so normally I wouldn't comment but I'll attempt to improve the discussion.. Do applications in C++ get modeled the same way as they would in Java or C#? Allocation speed doesn't quite seem like an apples to apples comparison.

greyman 17y ago

I have experience programming in large teams in both C++ (~10 years) and C# (~3 years), and my feeling is that the overall development is really quicker in C#. It's a large windows-only standalone app where speed is very important. But if my team have to build such app with cross-platform requirement, I still think C++ would be the choice. [with the similar arguments the author uses at the end of his rant]

uhgibuig 17y ago
Or if you need to use any other libraries. C# is great assuming everything you need is in .Net. As soon as you need a decent maths library or a screengraph or some image processing it involves a lot more work.

wglb 17y ago

Often done--a list of what is important in language choice, followed by the choice we wanted to make anyway: "Nethertheless, we choosed C++ as our language." C++ is slow, but in time to learn or write, but not necessarily in execution.

olliesaunders 17y ago

It's difficult to imagine games being written in Java or C# and being faster than C++.

steiger 17y ago
Some say that Jake 2 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake2 ) actually ran faster than Quake 2. Of course there are a number of points to consider here, like the oldness of the Quake 2 code (thus a lack of optimization for modern computers). Anyway, just a curiosity :)

nrr 17y ago

This thing reads like a USENET troll post. No joke.

humbledrone 17y ago

FTA: "C++ isn't open to other languages" Obviously the author has not heard of boost::python -- it provides an extremely easy way to interface Python and C++, including classes in one language that inherit from classes in the other. EDIT: Oh, yeah, and SWIG.