7 ms·

ZTE Starts Sales of Open C Firefox OS Phone on eBay

86 points by conductor 12y ago

bananas 12y ago
This is £70 in the UK. That nets you a Lumia 520 as a comparison point. For £30 more you can get an 8Gb Moto G. I can't see it selling here.
- ExpiredLink 12y ago
  > Targeted at ... early adopters wanting to try out Firefox OS ...
- morsch 12y ago
  Almost identical specs as a Lumia 520, too. 4 GB storage instead of 8 GB (both extensible via sd). Even for a low budget phone, I don't get why they don't go with at least 16 GB. 4 GB is pathetic. http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6155&idPhone2=5322 http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6155&idPhone2=...
  - lucaspiller 12y ago
    It's even closer to the Nokia X. Once you've installed Google Play that's not bad, and abroad you can pick up the dual SIM version. The Nokia Store is missing pretty basic apps so provides a selection of third party stores for you to install. Alternatively you can sideload Google Play services.
- fred_durst 12y ago
  I was unaware you could run Firefox OS on a Lumia 520. Do you have a link that describes how to do that? Or is there a vendor selling Lumia 520's with Firefox OS? I also have not seen Moto G's running Firefox OS. EDIT: Possibly I should add some context to my question. I'm not sure why the comment is comparing a phone running a different operating system and different software. So I thought maybe these other phones could run Firefox OS and I just didn't know. I've been using Firefox OS for about a year and would not want to use a phone on a different OS. The article was about a new version of a Firefox OS phone.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    It is called a browser. Usually comes integrated in all mobile operating systems, alongside the native apps.
    - fred_durst 12y ago
      That's strange. Could you explain how this works in a browser right now outside of Firefox OS. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI/Simple_Push https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI/Simple_Push At the bottom it lists the support and I see all browsers with "Not Supported" and then this line "This API is currently available on Firefox OS only for any installed applications."
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        It is sad state of affairs. Mozilla used to be about open standards.
        fred_durst 12y ago
        I'm not sure if that answered my question. Are you saying I can do that in a browser as you said? Or do I need Firefox OS for that?
        petecox 12y ago
        Bleeding edge requires a bleeding edge browser. If you want cross-device compatibility, use a mature API like Cordova.
        fred_durst 12y ago
        Are you actually comparing a simple web hosted manifest file to compiling an application as a similar process?
        fred_durst 12y ago
        > Mozilla used to be about open standards. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/default/index.html https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/default/index.html Is there something about that document that is against open standards?
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Same in Germany. Android 4.1 devices like the Samsung Galaxy Young are available for 70 € already. Native App + Browsers Apps + Skype + Whatsapp + Viber + ....
  - darklajid 12y ago
    A matter of requirements and principles. I'm currently discussing that change in my family, because I don't need - Skype - Whatsapp - Viber and the browser of choice is Firefox (actually Aurora on Android, but yeah). I guess I'd trade my S3 for one of these.
    - Pacabel 12y ago
      Do the "principles" in your case revolve around openness, freedom, and so forth? I've heard a lot of people use such ideals when advocating for Firefox OS, but I just don't see it all holding true in practice. Firefox OS is one of the more restrictive environments, at least for developers. I'm basically stuck using JavaScript, HTML and CSS. If I want to use any other language, I have to try to molest it through something like Emscripten. If I want to create a native app, I'm out of luck. At least a platform like Android gives developers a comparatively wide variety of options, from Java, to C and C++, to JavaScript/HTML5/CSS. By limiting the freedom of developers to create apps as they see fit, then it directly impacts the freedom of end users to use such apps. And I don't see Firefox OS as being particularly open in other respects. Maybe the code is available under an open source license, and maybe Mozilla will accept minor bug fixes from the community, but I really doubt an average user would have any ability to influence/impact/control Firefox OS beyond that. Decisions are foisted upon the users. It doesn't seem any better than Android, or iOS, or whatever other platform you want to consider. The same goes for the "But we implement open standards!" claims. The process to come up with such standards isn't very open at all. It ends up being controlled by a small handful of major browser vendors, with minimal to no input from others. Merely being published does not make a standard "open". All in all, it makes no sense to me to choose Firefox OS on a matter of principle. It doesn't actually meet whatever standard is being set by those principles, yet it still gives a much inferior experience to the alternatives.
- glogla 12y ago
  Here in Czech Republic (which is semi-eastern europe), Lumia 520 is 50 % more expensive than ZTE Open C, and 8 GB Moto G is twice the price. Now, Lumia 520 has better camera and perhaps better screen and CPU, and Moto G is whole different matter (720p, quadcore, 1 GB RAM), so the prices make sense. The cheap Chinese devices that you can get for the same money (like Huawei Y330) have generally the same hardware, so I don't think ZTE is overpricing the ZTE Open C. So, while I can't give you prices, it's possible that the ZTE Open C is more competitive in markets like Eastern Europe or South America. EDIT: the reason to get ZTE Open C instead of say, Lumia 520 or Huawei Y330 would be that FxOS devices should have better browser performance for the money, at least from the impressions from the SVG comparison video, and the browser seems to be much better integrated to the system than on Android or Windows Phone.
dpcan 12y ago
Hope it's noticeably faster than the ZTE Open which I couldn't realistically use for day to day applications due to the lag and that it never updated to the latest Firefox OS and I had trouble doing it manually because I didn't know which build to flash my device with (lingo?) Going to give this one a try. So far, 2 Firefox phones and I haven't paid as much as I did for my 1 Android. So technically, I can still justify trying 1 more version of the ZTE phone if it comes out for around $99 in the next year or so :) I keep trying though because I just love the idea that I can use my current web development skill set to create native apps for this so easily. My first attempts on the ZTE Open went really well.
- ekr 12y ago
  >I keep trying though because I just love the idea that I can use my current web development skill set to create native apps for this so easily. My first attempts on the ZTE Open went really well. I'd say those apps are hardly native, now, are they? There are several layers between the code you write, and the actual ARM(in most cases) machine code.
  - highwind 12y ago
    Then, I'd argue that writing iOS app in Objective C is not native because there are several layers between Obj-C and the Apple A7 cpu. There might be more layers on Firefox OS than iOS, but I'd take more abstraction layer than write speedy "native" code any day.
    - pslam 12y ago
      You can actual write in assembler on iOS and use that (sparingly) in your programs, which means there are optionally no layers between you and the CPU. For almost all apps, that's unnecessary, but it's there as an option if you really need it.
      - seabrookmx 12y ago
        You see a bit of this in game development. At my old job, our engine was written in C++, however we had two copies of our matrix library: one written in C for desktop etc. and one written in ARM NEON asm, for building on iOS or with the Android NDK.
daleharvey 12y ago
For people who are interested in being able to develop on the device and flash new builds, I would suggest waiting a little longer for the reference device https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/23/new-developer-hardware-and-tools-show-firefox-os-ecosystem-momentum-2/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/23/new-developer-hardw... It is due to be shipped soon, is going to be used widely internally for development and full public builds / a good dev experience has been promised.
- diafygi 12y ago
  Do you know how much it will cost?
  - 01Michael10 12y ago
    I remember reading $179 for the Firefox OS Flame developer reference phone somewhere but Google is letting me down and can't find the post...
  - glogla 12y ago
    The Mozilla page [1] says 170 USD including global shipping. [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho...
  - praeivis 12y ago
    It cost only $99,99 if you are from US.
diafygi 12y ago
The previous generation (ZTE Open) started at $79 and is now $69. This price point was so impressive for the html5 capabilities that it had. I even did a presentation on it's SVG performance vs. a similar Android device[1]. I'm concerned about the increased $99 price point. I thought the target market for Firefox OS was the developing world, where they could release extremely low cost phones ($50-$80) that can run the full gamut of html5 (vs. Android that is stuck in 2.3 for phones this cheap). Why release new phones that won't see as much adoption (because of the higher price)? [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8
- nnethercote 12y ago
  Don't panic. We're actively working on the $25 dollar phone that was reported earlier in the year (e.g. http://www.cnet.com/news/with-firefox-os-mozilla-begins-the-25-smartphone-push/ http://www.cnet.com/news/with-firefox-os-mozilla-begins-the-...). So there will be quite the range of price points to be had.
  - darthgoogle 12y ago
    Do you know if the phone will work with T-Mobile's 3G data? Would be useful if potential customers could quickly see in a table which carriers are supported and upto what data speeds.
  - diafygi 12y ago
    Woo! Great news! One of benefits of having cheap devices is that it significantly lowers the barrier to entry for the developer community. It becomes super encouraging to pick up a phone just to fiddle. However, one of the biggest problems the community ran into for the ZTE Open was that hardly any Mozilla devs had one. So even though it was the most easily obtainable phone for the dev community, it received very little Mozilla support. As these low-end devices push the limits the most for Firefox OS, will the Mozilla team start to work with them more?
    - nnethercote 12y ago
batmansbelt 12y ago
That's an exceptional value. So cheap for such good features. And the firefox marketplace has lots of great apps. FirefoxOS really seems to be taking off, particularly in Latin America.
- octopus 12y ago
  Do you have any comparison charts between Firefox OS usage and iOS/Android in South America ?
  - batmansbelt 12y ago
    Just for downloads of my apps (games mostly). More action in the firefox marketplace. Maybe just because Play Store is bigger pond.
- msh 12y ago
  I don't see how this is exceptional value. Same hardware as Lumia 520 or Sony e1 (Android 4.3) for approximate the same price.
13throwaway 12y ago
Do these have an isolated modem? What is the status on running other OSs on this?
- seba_dos1 12y ago
  ZTE Open is as closed and undocumented as your typical Android phone. Dunno about Open C, but I wouldn't expect it to be any different.
aaronbrethorst 12y ago
144 sold in the United States, hmm. http://item.ebay.com/291125433026 http://item.ebay.com/291125433026
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
zengr 12y ago
ZTE's eBay Store front: http://www.ebay.com/sch/zte_us/m.html http://www.ebay.com/sch/zte_us/m.html
climatewarrior2 12y ago
Does anybody know if it supports Sprint in the US?
abus 12y ago
I would buy this if it had a front facing camera.
tango2 12y ago
FEATURE Media : Ability to use device speakers with the FM radio app Really mozilla? Sorry, I would happily donate $99to Mozilla foundation than buying
- fabrice_d 12y ago
  Please do contribute! Mozilla is not selling these phones, ZTE is. FM Radio is actually a very important feature in many markets that are not US/Europe. That was a surprise for us too!
glogla 12y ago
Here's a semi-review by someone who has had the phone for a week [1]. It is not the most professional of reviews, but it could give you some impressions how the phone feels. [1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wB_KLWJQPM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wB_KLWJQPM
noisy_boy 12y ago
I didn't see any mention of filesystem access on this phone - can someone comment on that? Edit: I went this comment[1] and the reviewer shows that file manager apps can be downloaded. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7724972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7724972

86 points by conductor 12y ago

This is £70 in the UK. That nets you a Lumia 520 as a comparison point. For £30 more you can get an 8Gb Moto G. I can't see it selling here.

ExpiredLink 12y ago
> Targeted at ... early adopters wanting to try out Firefox OS ...
morsch 12y ago
Almost identical specs as a Lumia 520, too. 4 GB storage instead of 8 GB (both extensible via sd). Even for a low budget phone, I don't get why they don't go with at least 16 GB. 4 GB is pathetic. http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6155&idPhone2=5322 http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=6155&idPhone2=...
- lucaspiller 12y ago
  It's even closer to the Nokia X. Once you've installed Google Play that's not bad, and abroad you can pick up the dual SIM version. The Nokia Store is missing pretty basic apps so provides a selection of third party stores for you to install. Alternatively you can sideload Google Play services.
fred_durst 12y ago
I was unaware you could run Firefox OS on a Lumia 520. Do you have a link that describes how to do that? Or is there a vendor selling Lumia 520's with Firefox OS? I also have not seen Moto G's running Firefox OS. EDIT: Possibly I should add some context to my question. I'm not sure why the comment is comparing a phone running a different operating system and different software. So I thought maybe these other phones could run Firefox OS and I just didn't know. I've been using Firefox OS for about a year and would not want to use a phone on a different OS. The article was about a new version of a Firefox OS phone.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  It is called a browser. Usually comes integrated in all mobile operating systems, alongside the native apps.
  - fred_durst 12y ago
    That's strange. Could you explain how this works in a browser right now outside of Firefox OS. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI/Simple_Push https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAPI/Simple_Push At the bottom it lists the support and I see all browsers with "Not Supported" and then this line "This API is currently available on Firefox OS only for any installed applications."
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      It is sad state of affairs. Mozilla used to be about open standards.
      - fred_durst 12y ago
        I'm not sure if that answered my question. Are you saying I can do that in a browser as you said? Or do I need Firefox OS for that?
        petecox 12y ago
        Bleeding edge requires a bleeding edge browser. If you want cross-device compatibility, use a mature API like Cordova.
        fred_durst 12y ago
        Are you actually comparing a simple web hosted manifest file to compiling an application as a similar process?
      - fred_durst 12y ago
        > Mozilla used to be about open standards. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/default/index.html https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/default/index.html Is there something about that document that is against open standards?
pjmlp 12y ago
Same in Germany. Android 4.1 devices like the Samsung Galaxy Young are available for 70 € already. Native App + Browsers Apps + Skype + Whatsapp + Viber + ....
- darklajid 12y ago
  A matter of requirements and principles. I'm currently discussing that change in my family, because I don't need - Skype - Whatsapp - Viber and the browser of choice is Firefox (actually Aurora on Android, but yeah). I guess I'd trade my S3 for one of these.
  - Pacabel 12y ago
    Do the "principles" in your case revolve around openness, freedom, and so forth? I've heard a lot of people use such ideals when advocating for Firefox OS, but I just don't see it all holding true in practice. Firefox OS is one of the more restrictive environments, at least for developers. I'm basically stuck using JavaScript, HTML and CSS. If I want to use any other language, I have to try to molest it through something like Emscripten. If I want to create a native app, I'm out of luck. At least a platform like Android gives developers a comparatively wide variety of options, from Java, to C and C++, to JavaScript/HTML5/CSS. By limiting the freedom of developers to create apps as they see fit, then it directly impacts the freedom of end users to use such apps. And I don't see Firefox OS as being particularly open in other respects. Maybe the code is available under an open source license, and maybe Mozilla will accept minor bug fixes from the community, but I really doubt an average user would have any ability to influence/impact/control Firefox OS beyond that. Decisions are foisted upon the users. It doesn't seem any better than Android, or iOS, or whatever other platform you want to consider. The same goes for the "But we implement open standards!" claims. The process to come up with such standards isn't very open at all. It ends up being controlled by a small handful of major browser vendors, with minimal to no input from others. Merely being published does not make a standard "open". All in all, it makes no sense to me to choose Firefox OS on a matter of principle. It doesn't actually meet whatever standard is being set by those principles, yet it still gives a much inferior experience to the alternatives.
glogla 12y ago
Here in Czech Republic (which is semi-eastern europe), Lumia 520 is 50 % more expensive than ZTE Open C, and 8 GB Moto G is twice the price. Now, Lumia 520 has better camera and perhaps better screen and CPU, and Moto G is whole different matter (720p, quadcore, 1 GB RAM), so the prices make sense. The cheap Chinese devices that you can get for the same money (like Huawei Y330) have generally the same hardware, so I don't think ZTE is overpricing the ZTE Open C. So, while I can't give you prices, it's possible that the ZTE Open C is more competitive in markets like Eastern Europe or South America. EDIT: the reason to get ZTE Open C instead of say, Lumia 520 or Huawei Y330 would be that FxOS devices should have better browser performance for the money, at least from the impressions from the SVG comparison video, and the browser seems to be much better integrated to the system than on Android or Windows Phone.

dpcan 12y ago

Hope it's noticeably faster than the ZTE Open which I couldn't realistically use for day to day applications due to the lag and that it never updated to the latest Firefox OS and I had trouble doing it manually because I didn't know which build to flash my device with (lingo?) Going to give this one a try. So far, 2 Firefox phones and I haven't paid as much as I did for my 1 Android. So technically, I can still justify trying 1 more version of the ZTE phone if it comes out for around $99 in the next year or so :) I keep trying though because I just love the idea that I can use my current web development skill set to create native apps for this so easily. My first attempts on the ZTE Open went really well.

ekr 12y ago
>I keep trying though because I just love the idea that I can use my current web development skill set to create native apps for this so easily. My first attempts on the ZTE Open went really well. I'd say those apps are hardly native, now, are they? There are several layers between the code you write, and the actual ARM(in most cases) machine code.
- highwind 12y ago
  Then, I'd argue that writing iOS app in Objective C is not native because there are several layers between Obj-C and the Apple A7 cpu. There might be more layers on Firefox OS than iOS, but I'd take more abstraction layer than write speedy "native" code any day.
  - pslam 12y ago
    You can actual write in assembler on iOS and use that (sparingly) in your programs, which means there are optionally no layers between you and the CPU. For almost all apps, that's unnecessary, but it's there as an option if you really need it.
    - seabrookmx 12y ago
      You see a bit of this in game development. At my old job, our engine was written in C++, however we had two copies of our matrix library: one written in C for desktop etc. and one written in ARM NEON asm, for building on iOS or with the Android NDK.

daleharvey 12y ago

For people who are interested in being able to develop on the device and flash new builds, I would suggest waiting a little longer for the reference device https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/23/new-developer-hardware-and-tools-show-firefox-os-ecosystem-momentum-2/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/02/23/new-developer-hardw... It is due to be shipped soon, is going to be used widely internally for development and full public builds / a good dev experience has been promised.

diafygi 12y ago
Do you know how much it will cost?
- 01Michael10 12y ago
  I remember reading $179 for the Firefox OS Flame developer reference phone somewhere but Google is letting me down and can't find the post...
- glogla 12y ago
  The Mozilla page [1] says 170 USD including global shipping. [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_pho...
- praeivis 12y ago
  It cost only $99,99 if you are from US.

diafygi 12y ago

The previous generation (ZTE Open) started at $79 and is now $69. This price point was so impressive for the html5 capabilities that it had. I even did a presentation on it's SVG performance vs. a similar Android device[1]. I'm concerned about the increased $99 price point. I thought the target market for Firefox OS was the developing world, where they could release extremely low cost phones ($50-$80) that can run the full gamut of html5 (vs. Android that is stuck in 2.3 for phones this cheap). Why release new phones that won't see as much adoption (because of the higher price)? [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MU3jxEye8

nnethercote 12y ago
Don't panic. We're actively working on the $25 dollar phone that was reported earlier in the year (e.g. http://www.cnet.com/news/with-firefox-os-mozilla-begins-the-25-smartphone-push/ http://www.cnet.com/news/with-firefox-os-mozilla-begins-the-...). So there will be quite the range of price points to be had.
- darthgoogle 12y ago
  Do you know if the phone will work with T-Mobile's 3G data? Would be useful if potential customers could quickly see in a table which carriers are supported and upto what data speeds.
- diafygi 12y ago
  Woo! Great news! One of benefits of having cheap devices is that it significantly lowers the barrier to entry for the developer community. It becomes super encouraging to pick up a phone just to fiddle. However, one of the biggest problems the community ran into for the ZTE Open was that hardly any Mozilla devs had one. So even though it was the most easily obtainable phone for the dev community, it received very little Mozilla support. As these low-end devices push the limits the most for Firefox OS, will the Mozilla team start to work with them more?
  - nnethercote 12y ago

batmansbelt 12y ago

That's an exceptional value. So cheap for such good features. And the firefox marketplace has lots of great apps. FirefoxOS really seems to be taking off, particularly in Latin America.

octopus 12y ago
Do you have any comparison charts between Firefox OS usage and iOS/Android in South America ?
- batmansbelt 12y ago
  Just for downloads of my apps (games mostly). More action in the firefox marketplace. Maybe just because Play Store is bigger pond.
msh 12y ago
I don't see how this is exceptional value. Same hardware as Lumia 520 or Sony e1 (Android 4.3) for approximate the same price.

13throwaway 12y ago

Do these have an isolated modem? What is the status on running other OSs on this?

seba_dos1 12y ago
ZTE Open is as closed and undocumented as your typical Android phone. Dunno about Open C, but I wouldn't expect it to be any different.

aaronbrethorst 12y ago

144 sold in the United States, hmm. http://item.ebay.com/291125433026 http://item.ebay.com/291125433026

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

zengr 12y ago

ZTE's eBay Store front: http://www.ebay.com/sch/zte_us/m.html http://www.ebay.com/sch/zte_us/m.html

climatewarrior2 12y ago

Does anybody know if it supports Sprint in the US?

abus 12y ago

I would buy this if it had a front facing camera.

tango2 12y ago

FEATURE Media : Ability to use device speakers with the FM radio app Really mozilla? Sorry, I would happily donate $99to Mozilla foundation than buying

fabrice_d 12y ago
Please do contribute! Mozilla is not selling these phones, ZTE is. FM Radio is actually a very important feature in many markets that are not US/Europe. That was a surprise for us too!

glogla 12y ago

Here's a semi-review by someone who has had the phone for a week [1]. It is not the most professional of reviews, but it could give you some impressions how the phone feels. [1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wB_KLWJQPM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wB_KLWJQPM

noisy_boy 12y ago

I didn't see any mention of filesystem access on this phone - can someone comment on that? Edit: I went this comment[1] and the reviewer shows that file manager apps can be downloaded. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7724972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7724972