7 ms·

Interesting, just yesterday I visited the "Landeskriminalamt" (State Office of Criminal Investigations) in Munich and they are just migrating all of their Windo

by dewey 13y ago

Interesting, just yesterday I visited the "Landeskriminalamt" (State Office of Criminal Investigations) in Munich and they are just migrating all of their Windows XP desktops (They were criticized after paying a lot of money to keep getting security updates from Microsoft) to Windows 8.1. They mentioned that they are paying a lot of licence fees every year and that making sure everything is licenced correctly is a big task in itself. We asked them why they are not switching to open source software and Linux for their desktops and they basically said it's too big of a switch and even the city of Munich is struggling to migrate all their computers and that they are even thinking about switching back to Windows. This doesn't really seem that accurate after reading that article. Edit: Another anecdote from the visit: They said that even the switch from XP to 8.1 will confuse a lot of users (The guy giving the talk said that their average employee is already confused if some icons on the desktop change and they are very reluctant to accept changes). They printed flyers and recorded elearning courses on how to open a program or use the new system. They also added a simple way to migrate to some kind of legacy interface emulating the Windows XP look & feel for users who just won't accept the new system.

waltherg 13y ago
That's some solid Bavarian Beamtentum entrenchment on the part of these users.
3pt14159 13y ago
It is 2014, not being able to switch between operating system versions should be looked on as illiteracy. Fine, they can't use Ubuntu, whatever. But if our bureaucrats can't have a basic level of technical literacy, then they shouldn't be trusted with our government's data.
- dewey 13y ago
  I agree, but you have to keep in mind that some of these users are old (Think about the so police stations in small villages or how we call them: "Dorfpolizisten") and they didn't grow up with computers. It still takes a lot of convincing there especially if there's some kind of "Früher war alles besser" ("Back in the old days everything was better") mentality which isn't uncommon in these parts.
- glomph 13y ago
  This is unreasonable. Government officials use software they don't write it. Migrating to linux often requires new software to be made or found.
  - dublinben 13y ago
    You don't need to be a programmer to be computer literate. I can't program a line of code, and I'm comfortable on any OS, and can learn a new application in under a day. This shouldn't be a special or rare skill, but it really is.
- JabavuAdams 13y ago
  So, how exactly are you going to fire all of those people at the height of their power? Even if 50 year olds don't "get it", they have something that 20-35 year olds don't -- power and influence within their organizations.
  - 3pt14159 13y ago
    We should never have let it get this far. Computers have been around for 50 years, nobody in the work force today should have thought that they could avoid them. So yes, after getting 50 year olds to sit down and mess around with a computer for a couple months to see if they can "get" it, they should be let go. We fundamentally hire people to do a job. When they can't effectively utilize technology they are holding back society. It would be better to put them on welfare or to have them transition to a lower tech position. I don't want the local police chief installing some browser spamware and having all the juvie records leaked.
    - skriticos2 13y ago
      Personal computers came later. I remember in the mid nineties when I was in my teens and bought my first PC. I was one of the few people in the village to have a PC. I imagine that people in their 40's and above got acquainted with computers in office settings when they were already adult. Adult non-geeks can be very resistant to change, especially repeated one.
    - DasIch 13y ago
      A significant number of these people are probably Beamte[1], letting them go is not a possibility. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamter
  - jebblue 13y ago
    It's clear from reading the comments people are making about older people shows that being technical does not aid one's level of wisdom.
    - 13y ago
sspiff 13y ago
> The guy giving the talk said that their average employee is already confused if some icons on the desktop change and they are very reluctant to accept changes. This accurately describes my dealings with non-technical people over 50. My parents - now in their late 50s and early 60s - have both worked with computers since the 80s. They worked in the administration of the government and a major bank. Yet they are having a really hard time switching from their previous computer (Windows Vista) to their new one (Windows 7 - I specifically avoided 8 because of the bigger UI changes). Things like icons being organized differently, bookmarks being missing (how else would you navigate to Facebook or Gmail - the services they use most?) or their homepage changing. Things that seem beyond trivial for us, can pose a significant roadblock for people who didn't grow up with computers all around them. Forget making fun of people Googling for "facebook" or "gmail" instead of using the simple URLs. A lot of people have a hard time even figuring out they can search for these terms.
- Goronmon 13y ago
  Forget making fun of people Googling for "facebook" or "gmail" instead of using the simple URLs. I do this all the time actually.
  - sspiff 13y ago
    That's fine if it works for you. I won't judge. I just mentioned it because I've had several people, both on- and offline, mention it as a symptom of poor technical understanding of how the Internet works. In truth, I think it's more a matter of convenience and habit.
  - Argorak 13y ago
    "wiki <your term here>" ;)
    - sspiff 13y ago
      I did this as well, but only until I discovered DuckDuckGo.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
The "Landeskriminalamt" is on the state-level, it's not part of the city of Munich.

by dewey 13y ago

waltherg 13y ago

That's some solid Bavarian Beamtentum entrenchment on the part of these users.

3pt14159 13y ago

It is 2014, not being able to switch between operating system versions should be looked on as illiteracy. Fine, they can't use Ubuntu, whatever. But if our bureaucrats can't have a basic level of technical literacy, then they shouldn't be trusted with our government's data.

dewey 13y ago
I agree, but you have to keep in mind that some of these users are old (Think about the so police stations in small villages or how we call them: "Dorfpolizisten") and they didn't grow up with computers. It still takes a lot of convincing there especially if there's some kind of "Früher war alles besser" ("Back in the old days everything was better") mentality which isn't uncommon in these parts.
glomph 13y ago
This is unreasonable. Government officials use software they don't write it. Migrating to linux often requires new software to be made or found.
- dublinben 13y ago
  You don't need to be a programmer to be computer literate. I can't program a line of code, and I'm comfortable on any OS, and can learn a new application in under a day. This shouldn't be a special or rare skill, but it really is.
JabavuAdams 13y ago
So, how exactly are you going to fire all of those people at the height of their power? Even if 50 year olds don't "get it", they have something that 20-35 year olds don't -- power and influence within their organizations.
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  We should never have let it get this far. Computers have been around for 50 years, nobody in the work force today should have thought that they could avoid them. So yes, after getting 50 year olds to sit down and mess around with a computer for a couple months to see if they can "get" it, they should be let go. We fundamentally hire people to do a job. When they can't effectively utilize technology they are holding back society. It would be better to put them on welfare or to have them transition to a lower tech position. I don't want the local police chief installing some browser spamware and having all the juvie records leaked.
  - skriticos2 13y ago
    Personal computers came later. I remember in the mid nineties when I was in my teens and bought my first PC. I was one of the few people in the village to have a PC. I imagine that people in their 40's and above got acquainted with computers in office settings when they were already adult. Adult non-geeks can be very resistant to change, especially repeated one.
  - DasIch 13y ago
    A significant number of these people are probably Beamte[1], letting them go is not a possibility. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamter
- jebblue 13y ago
  It's clear from reading the comments people are making about older people shows that being technical does not aid one's level of wisdom.
  - 13y ago

sspiff 13y ago

> The guy giving the talk said that their average employee is already confused if some icons on the desktop change and they are very reluctant to accept changes. This accurately describes my dealings with non-technical people over 50. My parents - now in their late 50s and early 60s - have both worked with computers since the 80s. They worked in the administration of the government and a major bank. Yet they are having a really hard time switching from their previous computer (Windows Vista) to their new one (Windows 7 - I specifically avoided 8 because of the bigger UI changes). Things like icons being organized differently, bookmarks being missing (how else would you navigate to Facebook or Gmail - the services they use most?) or their homepage changing. Things that seem beyond trivial for us, can pose a significant roadblock for people who didn't grow up with computers all around them. Forget making fun of people Googling for "facebook" or "gmail" instead of using the simple URLs. A lot of people have a hard time even figuring out they can search for these terms.

Goronmon 13y ago
Forget making fun of people Googling for "facebook" or "gmail" instead of using the simple URLs. I do this all the time actually.
- sspiff 13y ago
  That's fine if it works for you. I won't judge. I just mentioned it because I've had several people, both on- and offline, mention it as a symptom of poor technical understanding of how the Internet works. In truth, I think it's more a matter of convenience and habit.
- Argorak 13y ago
  "wiki <your term here>" ;)
  - sspiff 13y ago
    I did this as well, but only until I discovered DuckDuckGo.

bayesianhorse 13y ago

The "Landeskriminalamt" is on the state-level, it's not part of the city of Munich.