6 ms·

Don't Call it a Fast Lane

126 points by xwowsersx 13y ago

lemma 13y ago
I think a better tactic/branding would be to call it "double billing" or "double charging". Fast/slow lanes do sound like something you should have to pay for.
xwowsersx 13y ago
I threw this up real quick. Was inspired by a comment on reddit: "Are we really still fucking calling these "Fast lanes?" Fast lanes sound good! We should be talking about "Slow lanes" since that is what you will be on if you don't pay up." Also inspired by Brad Feld's suggestion (I think it was) that we all just throttle our servers so we can give people a taste of what the slow lane feels like.
- mortenjorck 13y ago
  I think this is a great tactic to raise awareness, but what you're presenting right now doesn't really make the case. You're not giving the viewer any sort of meaningful reference point. Indeed, what you're showing them shouldn't feel like a fast lane, since you're not one of the established players paying for one! A more effective narrative should throw into relief the gradual transformation of a non-neutral net. Visualize how when the big players can pay to get to you faster, everyone else gets (relatively) slower.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rjbwork 13y ago
I think "Fast Lanes" is terrible, "Slow Lanes" is better, and "Toll Roads" is most accurate. The end of any pretense of net neutrality opens the doors for all manner of censorship, or more likely, extortion. "Sure is a mighty nice website you got there, be a shame if our 50 million subscribers couldn't access it...."
- mnutt 13y ago
  Worse than that, it may be that large websites just pay it since they benefit from the barriers to entry it creates for smaller websites. When your ISP has a deal that makes Facebook and Twitter free but all other websites have very strictly metered bandwidth caps, how much will that change your browsing habits?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- tzs 13y ago
  > "Sure is a mighty nice website you got there, be a shame if our 50 million subscribers couldn't access it...." The FCC explicitly said that kind of thing would not be allowed under their proposed regulatory plans. Do you have a reason to believe otherwise?
  - rjbwork 13y ago
    Netflix is essentially unwatchable for many comcast subscribers due to high congestion during peak hours. If the peering connections are sufficiently overloaded/congested, there isn't too much appreciable difference. On the other hand, give an inch, give a mile. The ISPs want toll roads, and if they get the ability to charge other peering services and content providers to carry their traffic over non-congested pipes, I don't see why they won't get toll roads from some other patsy they buy off later.
- bostik 13y ago
  > "Sure is a mighty nice website you got there, be a shame if our 50 million subscribers couldn't access it...." I thought there was an explicit term to describe that. Protection racket. In memory of the term "information superhighway", I wonder if it would also make sense to label the slow lane as information highway robbery?
arm55 13y ago
What is the loading time based on? I have a hard time making anything of this without a reference.
- oscilloscope 13y ago
  The time is intentionally long to simulate a throttled connection loading content.
  - arm55 13y ago
    I'm quite aware. But was it just a random time meant to be annoying? Or is based on a predicted loading time for some particular type of site based on estimated bandwidth?
panarky 13y ago
For those who don't click through, can you explain the essence of the issue? Something like, "Your cable company already charges you the world's highest price[1] to deliver data. Now they want to get paid twice for the same data, or they'll put you in the slow lane. Stop the monopoly toll collectors." [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24528383 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24528383
- xwowsersx 13y ago
  I agree. What should I make the copy?
  - niels_olson 13y ago
    Make it take longer. One sentence per load: "US cable companies want to turn their networks into toll roads." "They're already doing it sneakily, but they want the FCC to give them express written permission." "They installed a puppet as FCC chairman." "They see you as a product they can sell to companies." "They're playing a game of chicken with those companies." "Globally, they're the only ones playing this game of chicken." "The FCC should be labeling them "common carriers" so they play by the same rules as the phone companies." "Instead, their puppet, Tom Wheeler, is giving them what they want." "And he's threatening us with dire consequences if he doesn't do what they told him too." "Do you buy it?" "Neither do we." "Their plan will actually stifle innovation and drag the internet to a crawl for most Americans."
- rjbwork 13y ago
  Yes, as I alluded to in my comment, tolls and extortion are the talking points/buzzwords the pro-net neutrality side needs to be getting out there. The best part is that they are accurate (toll more so than extortion, possibly, but my point stands).
  - danielweber 13y ago
    tolls and extortion are the talking points/buzzwords the pro-net neutrality side needs to be getting out there It might seem that way at first, but the most effective way of winning people to your side is usually not to come up with the most inflammatory language you can possibly justify.
danielweber 13y ago
I don't think saying "nuh uh, it's a slow lane" is going to be a real winning argument. Simply accusing the other side of doing the complete opposite of what they claim to do needs a lot more political savvy. Maybe try pointing out how manufacturers sell the same printer to homes and businesses at different price points, except that the home version is deliberately slowed down instead of the business version being any more advanced. I think that's the (legitimate) fear you are trying to express.
- api_or_ipa 13y ago
  can you source a reference to the printer reference? I'm interested in reading more about such phenomena.
  - akiselev 13y ago
    I can't speak to the printer case but silicon manufacturers do this to an absurd degree with their SKUs. See the GTX 690 to Quadro conversion hack [1]. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GTX-690-Quadro-K5000,21656.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GTX-690-Quadro-K5000...
    - TTPrograms 13y ago
      There are a few cases of this, but mostly this is done as a way to deal with variations in manufacturing as explained above. Furthermore, from that article: > We do know if the system sees the card as a Quadro K5000 card, but we cannot be sure about whether it actually performs like one or if it is entirely bug-free. You change the Device ID and the OS thinks it's something else, sure, but you could do that with anything with comparable specification.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    Honestly, I'm remembering a Joel On Software article that doesn't precisely quote its source. Your question needs a solid answer if someone tries to use it to argue for net neutrality.
- 13y ago
johnvschmitt 13y ago
Has anyone A/B tested the different language choices around Net Neutrality? Or focus groups? For example, Frank Luntz did lots of focus group studies to figure out how to persuade people, simply by choosing the right words. "Estate Tax" became "Death Tax" for example. Rather than just "be creative", we should put those different creatives through the data-driven approaches (A/B tests & focus groups) to find what will resonate & persuade the audiences outside of the HN-insider / reddit-insider cohorts.
junto 13y ago
I've just talked about this in another thread so I'll summarise it here. Cloudflare should implement this for their clients to opt in to protest. They identify IP ranges that are related to people who can threaten or influence net neutrality. E.g. Comcast, congress, any backers of this new bill, even Comcast customers, etc When a user from one of these blacklisted IP ranges visits your site they get presented with the 'protest page'. It explains why they are about to be throttled and how they can join the protest (contact congress rep, etc). It also shows participating protest sites as a leaderboard - total throttled users (featuring Cloudflares biggest customers). I don't even mind if they inject a banner onto the top if my website that announces me as a proud supporter of net neutrality.
MRSallee 13y ago
Was really hoping this was commentary on freeway lane choices and people instinctively moving left into the "fast lane" even when they have no one to pass. It's a passing lane, not a fast lane.
EEGuy 13y ago
Perhaps it's been on HN already, but this video [1] uses a books-from-different-vendors, one-shipping-company analogy. Plain-speaking and clear IMO. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAxMyTwmu_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAxMyTwmu_M
randomfool 13y ago
It's Extortion. I see no reason why Comcast should need more money to deliver a 5mb HD video stream over my 50mb connection. Now if Comcast wants to charge extra to stream 5mb video over a 1mb subscriber line (increasing the BW for that video), then go for it.
mjcohen 13y ago
This just kept loading, so I killed it without looking. What is wrong with text????
kimonos 13y ago
It took time to load..
dreamdu5t 13y ago
What does "open internet" even mean? Like, what is the actual law proposed and what does it say. "Net neutrality" and "open internet" sound as meaningless and confusing as "healthcare reform."
Freestyler_3 13y ago
While we are at it, dont make websites like dontcallitafastlane.com I opened it in a new tab, and when I got to it it showed the text which made no sense at all. The subject is worth discussion, but this doesnt start discussion.
xwowsersx 13y ago
I've updated the copy on the site. It's better than it was before, but still not great. Open to any suggestions.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

126 points by xwowsersx 13y ago

lemma 13y ago

I think a better tactic/branding would be to call it "double billing" or "double charging". Fast/slow lanes do sound like something you should have to pay for.

xwowsersx 13y ago

I threw this up real quick. Was inspired by a comment on reddit: "Are we really still fucking calling these "Fast lanes?" Fast lanes sound good! We should be talking about "Slow lanes" since that is what you will be on if you don't pay up." Also inspired by Brad Feld's suggestion (I think it was) that we all just throttle our servers so we can give people a taste of what the slow lane feels like.

mortenjorck 13y ago
I think this is a great tactic to raise awareness, but what you're presenting right now doesn't really make the case. You're not giving the viewer any sort of meaningful reference point. Indeed, what you're showing them shouldn't feel like a fast lane, since you're not one of the established players paying for one! A more effective narrative should throw into relief the gradual transformation of a non-neutral net. Visualize how when the big players can pay to get to you faster, everyone else gets (relatively) slower.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rjbwork 13y ago

I think "Fast Lanes" is terrible, "Slow Lanes" is better, and "Toll Roads" is most accurate. The end of any pretense of net neutrality opens the doors for all manner of censorship, or more likely, extortion. "Sure is a mighty nice website you got there, be a shame if our 50 million subscribers couldn't access it...."

mnutt 13y ago
Worse than that, it may be that large websites just pay it since they benefit from the barriers to entry it creates for smaller websites. When your ISP has a deal that makes Facebook and Twitter free but all other websites have very strictly metered bandwidth caps, how much will that change your browsing habits?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tzs 13y ago
> "Sure is a mighty nice website you got there, be a shame if our 50 million subscribers couldn't access it...." The FCC explicitly said that kind of thing would not be allowed under their proposed regulatory plans. Do you have a reason to believe otherwise?
- rjbwork 13y ago
  Netflix is essentially unwatchable for many comcast subscribers due to high congestion during peak hours. If the peering connections are sufficiently overloaded/congested, there isn't too much appreciable difference. On the other hand, give an inch, give a mile. The ISPs want toll roads, and if they get the ability to charge other peering services and content providers to carry their traffic over non-congested pipes, I don't see why they won't get toll roads from some other patsy they buy off later.
bostik 13y ago
> "Sure is a mighty nice website you got there, be a shame if our 50 million subscribers couldn't access it...." I thought there was an explicit term to describe that. Protection racket. In memory of the term "information superhighway", I wonder if it would also make sense to label the slow lane as information highway robbery?

arm55 13y ago

What is the loading time based on? I have a hard time making anything of this without a reference.

oscilloscope 13y ago
The time is intentionally long to simulate a throttled connection loading content.
- arm55 13y ago
  I'm quite aware. But was it just a random time meant to be annoying? Or is based on a predicted loading time for some particular type of site based on estimated bandwidth?

panarky 13y ago

For those who don't click through, can you explain the essence of the issue? Something like, "Your cable company already charges you the world's highest price[1] to deliver data. Now they want to get paid twice for the same data, or they'll put you in the slow lane. Stop the monopoly toll collectors." [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24528383 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24528383

xwowsersx 13y ago
I agree. What should I make the copy?
- niels_olson 13y ago
  Make it take longer. One sentence per load: "US cable companies want to turn their networks into toll roads." "They're already doing it sneakily, but they want the FCC to give them express written permission." "They installed a puppet as FCC chairman." "They see you as a product they can sell to companies." "They're playing a game of chicken with those companies." "Globally, they're the only ones playing this game of chicken." "The FCC should be labeling them "common carriers" so they play by the same rules as the phone companies." "Instead, their puppet, Tom Wheeler, is giving them what they want." "And he's threatening us with dire consequences if he doesn't do what they told him too." "Do you buy it?" "Neither do we." "Their plan will actually stifle innovation and drag the internet to a crawl for most Americans."
rjbwork 13y ago
Yes, as I alluded to in my comment, tolls and extortion are the talking points/buzzwords the pro-net neutrality side needs to be getting out there. The best part is that they are accurate (toll more so than extortion, possibly, but my point stands).
- danielweber 13y ago
  tolls and extortion are the talking points/buzzwords the pro-net neutrality side needs to be getting out there It might seem that way at first, but the most effective way of winning people to your side is usually not to come up with the most inflammatory language you can possibly justify.

danielweber 13y ago

I don't think saying "nuh uh, it's a slow lane" is going to be a real winning argument. Simply accusing the other side of doing the complete opposite of what they claim to do needs a lot more political savvy. Maybe try pointing out how manufacturers sell the same printer to homes and businesses at different price points, except that the home version is deliberately slowed down instead of the business version being any more advanced. I think that's the (legitimate) fear you are trying to express.

api_or_ipa 13y ago
can you source a reference to the printer reference? I'm interested in reading more about such phenomena.
- akiselev 13y ago
  I can't speak to the printer case but silicon manufacturers do this to an absurd degree with their SKUs. See the GTX 690 to Quadro conversion hack [1]. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GTX-690-Quadro-K5000,21656.html http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GTX-690-Quadro-K5000...
  - TTPrograms 13y ago
    There are a few cases of this, but mostly this is done as a way to deal with variations in manufacturing as explained above. Furthermore, from that article: > We do know if the system sees the card as a Quadro K5000 card, but we cannot be sure about whether it actually performs like one or if it is entirely bug-free. You change the Device ID and the OS thinks it's something else, sure, but you could do that with anything with comparable specification.
- danielweber 13y ago
  Honestly, I'm remembering a Joel On Software article that doesn't precisely quote its source. Your question needs a solid answer if someone tries to use it to argue for net neutrality.
13y ago

johnvschmitt 13y ago

Has anyone A/B tested the different language choices around Net Neutrality? Or focus groups? For example, Frank Luntz did lots of focus group studies to figure out how to persuade people, simply by choosing the right words. "Estate Tax" became "Death Tax" for example. Rather than just "be creative", we should put those different creatives through the data-driven approaches (A/B tests & focus groups) to find what will resonate & persuade the audiences outside of the HN-insider / reddit-insider cohorts.

junto 13y ago

I've just talked about this in another thread so I'll summarise it here. Cloudflare should implement this for their clients to opt in to protest. They identify IP ranges that are related to people who can threaten or influence net neutrality. E.g. Comcast, congress, any backers of this new bill, even Comcast customers, etc When a user from one of these blacklisted IP ranges visits your site they get presented with the 'protest page'. It explains why they are about to be throttled and how they can join the protest (contact congress rep, etc). It also shows participating protest sites as a leaderboard - total throttled users (featuring Cloudflares biggest customers). I don't even mind if they inject a banner onto the top if my website that announces me as a proud supporter of net neutrality.

MRSallee 13y ago

Was really hoping this was commentary on freeway lane choices and people instinctively moving left into the "fast lane" even when they have no one to pass. It's a passing lane, not a fast lane.

EEGuy 13y ago

Perhaps it's been on HN already, but this video [1] uses a books-from-different-vendors, one-shipping-company analogy. Plain-speaking and clear IMO. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAxMyTwmu_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAxMyTwmu_M

randomfool 13y ago

It's Extortion. I see no reason why Comcast should need more money to deliver a 5mb HD video stream over my 50mb connection. Now if Comcast wants to charge extra to stream 5mb video over a 1mb subscriber line (increasing the BW for that video), then go for it.

mjcohen 13y ago

This just kept loading, so I killed it without looking. What is wrong with text????

kimonos 13y ago

It took time to load..

dreamdu5t 13y ago

What does "open internet" even mean? Like, what is the actual law proposed and what does it say. "Net neutrality" and "open internet" sound as meaningless and confusing as "healthcare reform."

Freestyler_3 13y ago

While we are at it, dont make websites like dontcallitafastlane.com I opened it in a new tab, and when I got to it it showed the text which made no sense at all. The subject is worth discussion, but this doesnt start discussion.

xwowsersx 13y ago

I've updated the copy on the site. It's better than it was before, but still not great. Open to any suggestions.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]