4 ms·

Of couse, if you can model or compute the human brain, then none of us has free will since we are merely chemical reactions and the product of environmental inp

by JunkDNA 12y ago

Of couse, if you can model or compute the human brain, then none of us has free will since we are merely chemical reactions and the product of environmental inputs at that point.

adrianN 12y ago
I have yet to see a precise definition of "free will" that does not require magic (i.e. humans are not bound by the laws of physics) and somehow captures the intuitive feeling that "we" decide what we do. As far as I'm concerned, free will is an illusion.
- orasis 12y ago
  There is causality. This present moment is the very leading edge of causality being computed. When do you make decisions? Do you make them in the past? Do you make them in the future? Past and future do not exist. They are simply memories and fantasies arising in this present moment. If past and future don't really exist and decisions are made this present moment, is your decision pre-determined or is simply instantly determined, now? If the future were totally deterministic, it would have already been computed. But, it hasn't yet been computed. We are the computation happening right now, and there is reasonable reason to believe that a multitude of possibilities may collapse into the actuality of this moment.
  - adrianN 12y ago
    Note that my claim that free will is an illusion does not imply determinism. When I flip a coin (or do a proper quantum-y experiment) the outcome isn't determined either. That doesn't mean the coin decides mid-flight which side feels more comfortable to land on.
    - orasis 12y ago
      Fair enough. Most arguments to discount free will rely on determinism. Lets go back to this moment, now. Can you find a present moment in which outcomes are determined? Or, are you left with an infinitely slippery field of experience where outcomes are never fully resolved, but rather constantly morph into a new nowness? What if you, as the experiencer are not a thing that happened in the past or will happen in the future, but rather are exactly this nowness, this exact unfolding computation. What if you are not the data but the present processing? So, instead of us being the coin that decides in mid-flight, what if we are the processing/unfolding that is deciding?

by JunkDNA 12y ago

Of couse, if you can model or compute the human brain, then none of us has free will since we are merely chemical reactions and the product of environmental inputs at that point.

adrianN 12y ago

I have yet to see a precise definition of "free will" that does not require magic (i.e. humans are not bound by the laws of physics) and somehow captures the intuitive feeling that "we" decide what we do. As far as I'm concerned, free will is an illusion.

orasis 12y ago
There is causality. This present moment is the very leading edge of causality being computed. When do you make decisions? Do you make them in the past? Do you make them in the future? Past and future do not exist. They are simply memories and fantasies arising in this present moment. If past and future don't really exist and decisions are made this present moment, is your decision pre-determined or is simply instantly determined, now? If the future were totally deterministic, it would have already been computed. But, it hasn't yet been computed. We are the computation happening right now, and there is reasonable reason to believe that a multitude of possibilities may collapse into the actuality of this moment.
- adrianN 12y ago
  Note that my claim that free will is an illusion does not imply determinism. When I flip a coin (or do a proper quantum-y experiment) the outcome isn't determined either. That doesn't mean the coin decides mid-flight which side feels more comfortable to land on.
  - orasis 12y ago
    Fair enough. Most arguments to discount free will rely on determinism. Lets go back to this moment, now. Can you find a present moment in which outcomes are determined? Or, are you left with an infinitely slippery field of experience where outcomes are never fully resolved, but rather constantly morph into a new nowness? What if you, as the experiencer are not a thing that happened in the past or will happen in the future, but rather are exactly this nowness, this exact unfolding computation. What if you are not the data but the present processing? So, instead of us being the coin that decides in mid-flight, what if we are the processing/unfolding that is deciding?