4 ms·

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to w

by edw519 17y ago

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job. But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this. I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. If OP perseveres for what he wants as well as he whines, problem solved. Oh and by the way, I got my MBA and worked at Denny's in 1978, so STFU and get busy.

cakesy 17y ago
People who are really serious at work, get into jobs in the last year of uni or before. There are loads of programs at uni, that you can get involved in, to help businesses. Some of these even pay, i did one that involved stochastic modelling for a large car company. That is when you should get involved, companies don't want someone with no experience of how to act in the work place.
- yardie 17y ago
  I sort of agree, except schools are hosting job fairs and finding out no one is coming. Laying people off is hard emotionally. Except for corporate raiders, most companies don't like to do it. It depresses morale. Now imagine you've gone through 2-3,000 workers. But you're still shopping around for interns. The people that stay will see this, and you can guarantee there will be a great deal of sabotage. I remember when there was the contraction (dotbomb) in 1999-2000. I was in Uni and when I went to the job fairs (Engineering, Science, and business colleges all had their own) the amount of alumnus was overwhelming. Guys that had graduated many years before me were taking a 2-3 hour drive to this land-grant university hoping to get a shot. Using their alumni connections to get any job. You can imagine what it would be like for an undergrad, no experience, no references, a meager resume, and a start date months or years away. I remember when Intel gave new hires severance money $7-10,000. They weren't going to start for at least 6 months. But Intel just laid off ~4,000 people so no way these guys were getting in. The problem is those programs are also tied to the economy in general. When businesses aren't hiring paid positions, it is also unlikely they are looking for unpaid interns. And those university programs are meaningless if there are no where for them to go.
teeja 17y ago
Me too, graduated with a degree in the hard sciences, 1974. (They're called that for a reason.) Then I worked as a fry cook, then a dishwasher, then a radio station librarian, then a DJ, then a lumberjack, then a carpenter. THEN I got a real job. Don't misunderstand: kids graduating right now landed in the shit. You're right: the greedy bastards have worked us over good. But guess what kid: we're all in it, and it's always been that way. Heard of anyone who worked all their life to build up a 500K retirement and just lost 60% of it? Two decades ago I listened to a guy tell me that he paid into a pension for 30 years, and when his company went down, it was ALL GONE. Rodney Dangerfield: "It's a jungle out there." Bank on it.
- andreyf 17y ago
  Things are much better now, then. For every person complaining, there are a lot of people working quietly - I graduated a year ago, and I had no trouble finding a job (and then switching it a couple of months ago) - but that's just one example, maybe I got lucky. Still, I can't think of a single college friend whom I could honestly call smart who can't found a job. Yes, I'm sure the people that wasted their time in college drinking and cheating didn't get much out of it, and are having a tough time now, but I can hardly feel sorry for them.
  - nostrademons 17y ago
    That's what I see among my friends, but I wonder if that holds across all socioeconomic strata. It seems like this recession hit the upper reaches of society first - finance, consulting, lawyers, universities and venture capital - and then worked its way down to regular unemployment. The news now is that finance is recovering (thanks to government bailouts), but the consumer picture is getting worse. Retail and manufacturing are taking it in the chin now. Edit: Actually, no, I can think of several friends in the class of 09 that graduated from a top college and still can't find jobs. They're in non-technical fields though; maybe tech is doing better, but non-tech is still in the dumps.
    - andreyf 17y ago
      The examples I was thinking of were all either CS, Math, or hard sciences - a lot of them chose to go to grad school, though.
rsheridan6 17y ago
If that happened to you now, you would be crushed by student loans that would be unpayable on Denny's wages, possibly going into default before you got your first real paycheck.
- presidentender 17y ago
  Or you could work while going to school, skip the partying, ride a bicycle, and keep your debt to a repayable level. I am 22 and I have a real job. During school, I washed a lot of dishes, picked up a lot of construction site refuse, drove a lot of nails, cut a lot of boards, and cleaned up a lot of spyware. Now I write software, for more than the spyware and dishwashing, but less than the construction. I'll still be able to repay my loans when they come due.
  - wizard_2 17y ago
    You don't have to live like a monk. Save 20% of your income always (don't make much? don't worry you won't be saving much. That 20% is your money don't give it away.) and start practicing at networking early. You probably wont do it washing dishes, but maybe hammering nails. Construction is for a client who you can meet, washing dishes you're in the kitchen. Talk to the people who need your services, talk to people because they might know someone who needs your services. Work out a way you can bring your talents to help others for money. I've never been without work and it's not because I'm particularly bright. I'm good at what I do, I love what I do (most of the time), and I talk about my work because of that. I hear my friends talk about not finding any work because of "the economy". I yell at them, I've never been busier. Most of it is routine work, but for the hard sells it comes down to a simple fact. My clients hire me so I can save them money long term. So I stay busy. I don't see how that can translate over to retail. But I can for many other professions. The writers, the sectaries, the office managers, for big companies for small for, for non profits. Chances are you can do the job for less money and with an added technical twist. They can pay you 3/4th as much, and you can make some pretty excel reports that will blow them away. It's never that simple, but that's the jist I've seen working. But what do I know? I'm a whiney 25 year old.
adrianwaj 17y ago
No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. Taking it one step further, the ruthless and ambitious (becoming a norm just to survive) will aim to take as much as possible and give back little or nothing at all, maybe a bit of lip service with some condescension. Then there's bosses making staff feel they owe them something just for providing a work opportunity in a particular field, or even just providing an income. Bosses wanting their pound of flesh and then some: $1 more for you is $1 less for me. Being paid regularly an honest wage for an honest days' work is a great thing, anything else and someone's being screwed over.

by edw519 17y ago

cakesy 17y ago

People who are really serious at work, get into jobs in the last year of uni or before. There are loads of programs at uni, that you can get involved in, to help businesses. Some of these even pay, i did one that involved stochastic modelling for a large car company. That is when you should get involved, companies don't want someone with no experience of how to act in the work place.

yardie 17y ago
I sort of agree, except schools are hosting job fairs and finding out no one is coming. Laying people off is hard emotionally. Except for corporate raiders, most companies don't like to do it. It depresses morale. Now imagine you've gone through 2-3,000 workers. But you're still shopping around for interns. The people that stay will see this, and you can guarantee there will be a great deal of sabotage. I remember when there was the contraction (dotbomb) in 1999-2000. I was in Uni and when I went to the job fairs (Engineering, Science, and business colleges all had their own) the amount of alumnus was overwhelming. Guys that had graduated many years before me were taking a 2-3 hour drive to this land-grant university hoping to get a shot. Using their alumni connections to get any job. You can imagine what it would be like for an undergrad, no experience, no references, a meager resume, and a start date months or years away. I remember when Intel gave new hires severance money $7-10,000. They weren't going to start for at least 6 months. But Intel just laid off ~4,000 people so no way these guys were getting in. The problem is those programs are also tied to the economy in general. When businesses aren't hiring paid positions, it is also unlikely they are looking for unpaid interns. And those university programs are meaningless if there are no where for them to go.

teeja 17y ago

Me too, graduated with a degree in the hard sciences, 1974. (They're called that for a reason.) Then I worked as a fry cook, then a dishwasher, then a radio station librarian, then a DJ, then a lumberjack, then a carpenter. THEN I got a real job. Don't misunderstand: kids graduating right now landed in the shit. You're right: the greedy bastards have worked us over good. But guess what kid: we're all in it, and it's always been that way. Heard of anyone who worked all their life to build up a 500K retirement and just lost 60% of it? Two decades ago I listened to a guy tell me that he paid into a pension for 30 years, and when his company went down, it was ALL GONE. Rodney Dangerfield: "It's a jungle out there." Bank on it.

andreyf 17y ago
Things are much better now, then. For every person complaining, there are a lot of people working quietly - I graduated a year ago, and I had no trouble finding a job (and then switching it a couple of months ago) - but that's just one example, maybe I got lucky. Still, I can't think of a single college friend whom I could honestly call smart who can't found a job. Yes, I'm sure the people that wasted their time in college drinking and cheating didn't get much out of it, and are having a tough time now, but I can hardly feel sorry for them.
- nostrademons 17y ago
  That's what I see among my friends, but I wonder if that holds across all socioeconomic strata. It seems like this recession hit the upper reaches of society first - finance, consulting, lawyers, universities and venture capital - and then worked its way down to regular unemployment. The news now is that finance is recovering (thanks to government bailouts), but the consumer picture is getting worse. Retail and manufacturing are taking it in the chin now. Edit: Actually, no, I can think of several friends in the class of 09 that graduated from a top college and still can't find jobs. They're in non-technical fields though; maybe tech is doing better, but non-tech is still in the dumps.
  - andreyf 17y ago
    The examples I was thinking of were all either CS, Math, or hard sciences - a lot of them chose to go to grad school, though.

rsheridan6 17y ago

If that happened to you now, you would be crushed by student loans that would be unpayable on Denny's wages, possibly going into default before you got your first real paycheck.

presidentender 17y ago
Or you could work while going to school, skip the partying, ride a bicycle, and keep your debt to a repayable level. I am 22 and I have a real job. During school, I washed a lot of dishes, picked up a lot of construction site refuse, drove a lot of nails, cut a lot of boards, and cleaned up a lot of spyware. Now I write software, for more than the spyware and dishwashing, but less than the construction. I'll still be able to repay my loans when they come due.
- wizard_2 17y ago
  You don't have to live like a monk. Save 20% of your income always (don't make much? don't worry you won't be saving much. That 20% is your money don't give it away.) and start practicing at networking early. You probably wont do it washing dishes, but maybe hammering nails. Construction is for a client who you can meet, washing dishes you're in the kitchen. Talk to the people who need your services, talk to people because they might know someone who needs your services. Work out a way you can bring your talents to help others for money. I've never been without work and it's not because I'm particularly bright. I'm good at what I do, I love what I do (most of the time), and I talk about my work because of that. I hear my friends talk about not finding any work because of "the economy". I yell at them, I've never been busier. Most of it is routine work, but for the hard sells it comes down to a simple fact. My clients hire me so I can save them money long term. So I stay busy. I don't see how that can translate over to retail. But I can for many other professions. The writers, the sectaries, the office managers, for big companies for small for, for non profits. Chances are you can do the job for less money and with an added technical twist. They can pay you 3/4th as much, and you can make some pretty excel reports that will blow them away. It's never that simple, but that's the jist I've seen working. But what do I know? I'm a whiney 25 year old.

adrianwaj 17y ago

No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself. Taking it one step further, the ruthless and ambitious (becoming a norm just to survive) will aim to take as much as possible and give back little or nothing at all, maybe a bit of lip service with some condescension. Then there's bosses making staff feel they owe them something just for providing a work opportunity in a particular field, or even just providing an income. Bosses wanting their pound of flesh and then some: $1 more for you is $1 less for me. Being paid regularly an honest wage for an honest days' work is a great thing, anything else and someone's being screwed over.