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The article linked to at the end (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/16/our_gimme_society_97908.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/20

by Elepsis 17y ago

The article linked to at the end (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/16/our_gimme_society_97908.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/16/our_gim...), interestingly, is complaining about a group of young people who are asking Congress for this list of "youth bailouts": Among other things, the coalition wants: free college tuition for low-income students who are willing to do volunteer work; the right to be covered in their parents' health insurance program until the age of 26; college loan-forgiveness programs for young people who agree to serve distressed communities after graduation; and micro loans for young entrepreneurs to start their own businesses. ... Frankly, those all sound like far smarter, better initiatives than propping up failing car manufacturers (which are, coincidentally, dominated by an older generation) or expanded government health coverage (which also disproportionately benefits older people). If that's what the 20-somethings of today "feel entitled" to, I feel pretty good about being a part of the group.

TomOfTTB 17y ago
I'm sorry but I disagree (I'm a 20-something but not for much longer so I really don't think it counts). Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for free and they're called Student Loans. With a part time job you can pay your living expenses and through grants and loans you can pay for school with very little problem. Health care's screwed up and it should be cheaper but I don't want to send the message that it's ok to live off your parents at 26 years of age. I don't have a problem with loan forgiveness for graduates that serve impoverished communities but that already exists for teachers and public servants. Finally, while micro-loans seem like a good idea it would almost certainly end in a huge cash drain with virtually no pay off. Programs like YC work because they educate while funding. A 22 year old with little work experience who thinks the answer is to turn to the Government for money stands almost no chance of creating a successful business imho (and as someone who knows his fair share of entrepreneurs I've found most will tell you their first venture failed)
- Alex3917 17y ago
  "The purpose [of volunteer work] is to show people the value of sacrifice." No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    What do you think the value of sacrifice means? The value in sacrifice is in the helping of other people. That's why we talk about the value of sacrifice when describing military personnel but not when we talk about suicide.
    - Alex3917 17y ago
      That's actually really interesting, I've always interpreted the 'value' in that phrase to be a character trait. Whereas you are saying that it's 'value' as in an equation, so putting in hours volunteering = good outcomes.
  - timwiseman 17y ago
    True, and excellent point, but that does not change the fact that if you are receiving some form of compensation that is on par with the work being done than it is not volunteer work in the traditional sense. It is, as was said, much closer to a government job.
- pyre 17y ago
  > Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. So does that make people that collect social security and/or welfare cheques 'government employees?'
  - swolchok 17y ago
    Social security and welfare cheques are hardly quid pro quo for volunteer work. Of course not.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    Social Security is (or is at least supposed to be) reimbursement of money you paid into the system. Welfare is a system in which society has chosen to give people money to live to prevent them from having no money at all so it's a gift not payment for any service.

by Elepsis 17y ago

TomOfTTB 17y ago

I'm sorry but I disagree (I'm a 20-something but not for much longer so I really don't think it counts). Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for free and they're called Student Loans. With a part time job you can pay your living expenses and through grants and loans you can pay for school with very little problem. Health care's screwed up and it should be cheaper but I don't want to send the message that it's ok to live off your parents at 26 years of age. I don't have a problem with loan forgiveness for graduates that serve impoverished communities but that already exists for teachers and public servants. Finally, while micro-loans seem like a good idea it would almost certainly end in a huge cash drain with virtually no pay off. Programs like YC work because they educate while funding. A 22 year old with little work experience who thinks the answer is to turn to the Government for money stands almost no chance of creating a successful business imho (and as someone who knows his fair share of entrepreneurs I've found most will tell you their first venture failed)

Alex3917 17y ago
"The purpose [of volunteer work] is to show people the value of sacrifice." No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  What do you think the value of sacrifice means? The value in sacrifice is in the helping of other people. That's why we talk about the value of sacrifice when describing military personnel but not when we talk about suicide.
  - Alex3917 17y ago
    That's actually really interesting, I've always interpreted the 'value' in that phrase to be a character trait. Whereas you are saying that it's 'value' as in an equation, so putting in hours volunteering = good outcomes.
- timwiseman 17y ago
  True, and excellent point, but that does not change the fact that if you are receiving some form of compensation that is on par with the work being done than it is not volunteer work in the traditional sense. It is, as was said, much closer to a government job.
pyre 17y ago
> Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. So does that make people that collect social security and/or welfare cheques 'government employees?'
- swolchok 17y ago
  Social security and welfare cheques are hardly quid pro quo for volunteer work. Of course not.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  Social Security is (or is at least supposed to be) reimbursement of money you paid into the system. Welfare is a system in which society has chosen to give people money to live to prevent them from having no money at all so it's a gift not payment for any service.