10 ms·

It's just wood

177 points by plusbryan 12y ago

XL5 12y ago
This is so unbelievably important. Too many people are unwilling to learn how to do the most basic of things to look after themselves. We are intelligent and capable. We should act as such.
- omegaworks 12y ago
  Specialization is actually one of the wonderful things that fall out of the whole Adam Smith Wealth of Nations Capital system (its why we're not all subsistence farmers). When someone can make something better / faster / stronger then I can, it's a good idea for them to do it and not me. That bed looks like it might not have been finished and sealed properly, he's definitely not using the green-hued pretreated wood. It'll probably rot by the end of the season.
  - ChrisClark 12y ago
    It's cedar, like the others have said, you should never use pressure treated wood or any type of sealant in a vegetable garden. I have a cedar raised garden I built 4 years ago. It rains 10 months out of the year here and it's still going strong. No indication of any rot or breaking down. But your comment is important and shows the power of the internet though. If you went to build a garden, you wouldn't just run out and buy pressure treated wood because you know it lasts more. I'm sure you would take the time to research it at least a little bit on the internet. You'd find this out within the first 10 minutes and then go build yourself a great bed.
    - jarin 12y ago
      Also, even if it does break down after a year, you can just plop together a new one. It's just wood.
  - Jtsummers 12y ago
    "Specialization is for insects." -- Heinlein A fiction writer, and a fictional character voices it, but seriously, fuck specialization. Sure I'm only a "master" of a couple domains, but familiarity (to the point of competence) in others gives me insight and ideas on how to further my work in my primary and secondary fields of interest/employment.
  - danielnaab 12y ago
    Pressure treated wood is toxic. Cedar is a better choice for food applications.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Wood is more durable than that, it will last for at least several years. I wouldn't eat things out of a bed made with pressure treated lumber.
  - foobarian 12y ago
    There is something else going on here. The writer's alternative to DIY was likely a time and resource consuming process of searching multiple stores for a suitable product (and even then probably not exactly right). There is a point where the custom product is easy enough to make and hard enough to find off-the-shelf that DIY is a compelling route even for the timid.
  - brc 12y ago
    Adam Smiths point is that you should stick to the production of whatever goods you have inherent comparative advantage at. That doesn't mean you should be a mono-skilled person with only a bimodal work/consume life. To be a rounded individual, you need to pick up skills in a lot of different fields, to the point of not being afraid of them. AT the very least, you'll be able to converse to a wide variety of people without feeling like a dumb schmuck.
- larrys 12y ago
  Yeah but I can see how for people it is really difficult to not fall into the trap of just taking the easier route and not spending the time to do it the hard-er way. But this really all boils down to a version of the "teach a man to fish" thing. The problem is by not learning how to fish (think and solve problems is this example) you are at the mercy of others to do things for you. One thing I can probably say with fair certainty is that if the shit hit the fan some of the people out there running the much aligned "lifestyle" businesses would be able to survive quite well simply because doing that requires you to have skills in many different areas as opposed to people who end up being totally reliant on info and help from others to get anywhere or get by. I hate to have to rely on anyone else and try to learn how to do pretty much anything I can that I might have to repeat at some time in the future if I can find the time to do so. And find that fun.
eps 12y ago
On the other hand, the fact that he was ready to buy pre-made garden bed is the reason why we have all these regex-as-a-service startups. It might be just wood, but then people are just lazy.
RKoutnik 12y ago
Despite claiming I'm 'full stack', I've never done much in the design sphere. Everything seemed so complicated. How do I pick fonts? What's a color scheme? I've recently dived in and while it's complicated, it's entirely possible to learn. People I've never met before were willing to spend 30min of their time going through what I'd done and point out where I could improve. Ask stupid questions* - you'll find many are willing to help out. *After doing proper research, of course.
- volune 12y ago
  I have never felt that a design was included in the idea of a full-stack software engineer. that would be something id mention separately if I had the skill.
  - jarin 12y ago
    It may not be expected, but it's definitely hoped for that you can at least make something that isn't going to make your eyes bleed. The nice thing is nowadays Bootstrap (maybe with a decent theme like Flat UI or Ace Admin) will get you 90% of the way there. Very basic design knowledge will get you the other 10%, and for anything past that you can hire a designer.
    - mgkimsal 12y ago
      There's 'design' and there's 'graphic artist' - sorry for the semantic distinction. There's a lot of basic design you can get from BS or foundation or whatever, and themes and such that all look nice. Coming up with specific artwork to match it (logos, something beyond just typed fonts, etc) is something I classify more as 'graphic art' work vs 'design'. It maybe be a distinction without much of a difference to some, and maybe there's a better way to phrase it, but it's a moderately important distinction in my head for some reason.
  - sanderjd 12y ago
    I think the increasingly common desire people have to work for themselves leads to full-stack really meaning full-stack. There are few options: 1) work for a company that employs a designer, 2) work for yourself and pay a designer, 3) work for yourself on something with no GUI, and 4) work for yourself and be able to design. Of those, option (4) is the most tenable for working on something of your own that might make some money without requiring a lot of initial investment. But I do agree with you that on job descriptions, "full-stack" tends to stop at javascript.
synesso 12y ago
"It's just wood" is nowhere near enough information to stop me making a complete mess of a job like that.
- jarin 12y ago
  Well I guess you do need to know what a 90° angle and nails are, too. I mean, you're not building a four-lane bridge here. If it can hold dirt for a growing season you're all set.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
dodders 12y ago
Seriously, you don't need a youtube video to explain how to replace a light switch. A screwdriver and a decent amount of curiosity will get you a long way. Plus knowing where the fuse box is, of course...
- jarin 12y ago
  Well, I mean it's probably good to watch the YouTube video anyway in case you don't know about turning off the fuse box. Might seem obvious in that case, but when you're just learning something you don't know what you don't know yet. Good to at least find out if there's anything that might kill you.
- plusbryan 12y ago
  And yet people are so scared of them! You're opening up an electrical switch box!?! Won't it explode or something?
sharkweek 12y ago
I love this article -- As a fun aside, I am meticulous about trying to learn every little detail I can about problems that arise with both my car and my house (it drives my wife crazy). I am an extremely "unhandy" person, but I still love giving it a go. This has led to the following two most common scenarios: 1) I fix the problem at hand after some trial and error, saving lots of money on an expensive service call (fixed a leaky sink, repaired a lawn mower, etc). 2) I make things (way) worse, thus costing a lot more money than it should (my car's exhaust system, the sewer line from our house, etc). I'm likely sitting at a zero sum; all well worth it.
- justinsteele 12y ago
  In the beginning it's tough to determine what is worth contracting out and what is not. After you spend some time experimenting (and often having it all come out in the wash as you saw), you can gain a better sense of when to call in an "expert" and what to DIY.
- brc 12y ago
  Not over time. Each failure is knowledge banked away, knowledge that is often cross-applicable to other situations. Even for skilled tradesmen, there is always the possibilty of having a job go bad and having to eat the cost of putting it right. Some of the jobs I have tackled myself make friends stare in disbelief. I always figure 'a human made this thing, a human can fix it'.
- lostlogin 12y ago
  Regarding point 2. If the problem reoccurs, you're now either capable or no your not, which is either a time or money saving. Additionally, how many "professional" jobs have you paid for that have turned out to be a simple exercise without cost or time blowouts or call backs. I'll bet it isn't zero.
larrys 12y ago
I think what is lost today, with the ability on youtube to see how to do everything, is a common sense and old school approach of the way things used to be done. That is, by thinking about it and trying to figure it out without knowing exactly how. The other day I was helping my wife assemble something for a school project for the kids. While I am not a woodworker (and have never taken a course, read books or watched videos) I am able just using common sense to put something together and figure it out and have a workable problem solving piece of wood object [1]. My wife insisted on telling me what the guy at the Home Depot and the instructions said we needed as far as size of screws or wood but I saw it differently, visually, as far as what would hold the wood together to solve the problem. It was much easier for me that way. Later I described that we probably would want to counter sink the screws as well and did that by simply taking a larger drill bit and drilling a bit after a pilot hole. After starting this I decided to do a youtube search out of curiosity and found video in great detail and somewhat lengthily describing how to counter sink a screw in wood and how there was a special bit just to do that. While that amount of info and detail might be needed by a professional making furniture (and actually I don't even think that is the case if you are good you can usually make do with much less) my approach worked fine and I saved time by not having to remember all these excess details that really (imo) weren't needed. I sometimes wonder if people who have grown up in the youtube era (or the era of having everything a click away) are somehow going to be disadvantaged by not having to spend much time thinking of solutions to problems and making mistakes and learning from them. [2] [1] An example of this would be the jigs I built for a battery backup system I did many years ago using heavy industrial batteries. I need a pad to rest the 150lb batteries on as well as a dolly to move the batteries. I just winged it and built something that ended up working pretty well out of 2x4's. Much easier than following instructions actually. I also built the wiring between batteries by going to an auto parts store and a bunch of other things to make a workable battery backup system for way less than a traditional UPS. Would run the equipment for about 24 hours (6 150lb industrial batteries in parallel hooked up to an inverter and line conditioner. Figured that one out, tested worked for about 8 to 10 years and never had any down time). [2] Today when you need to know syntax you do a search and the answer is there. Back in olden days you had a book or two and maybe a manual and you could iterate for hours trying to figure out which command line option (using Unix as the example here) actually did what you needed.
araes 12y ago
"Most people let mystery stop them" I actually find this true in other fields, or domains as well. Its not so much mystery in the more general case, but uncertainty. For example, some people find talking to boards, or VC folks, or executive officers terrifying, because of what I call uncertainty. This sense that they're alien, or different, or not understandable. Unfortunately though, they're just people, and they often respond the same way normal people respond to things, just from a different background and set of needs / motivations. Or, "I could start on my next project, but its so vast, and there is so much complexity. What would I even do?" But, once de-constructed, and taken in bite size pieces, each piece is knowable, and suddenly the uncertainty is gone. Good, short piece of advice article.
michaelochurch 12y ago
Sometimes I feel like I had the bizarre privilege (and, yes, I do count it as such, if only because I value diversity in experience) of growing up in the Dark Ages... and I'm not that old (born in 1983). Up to about 15 years ago, people had to just accept not knowing things that are now easy to find on the Internet. If, to use one of the OP's examples, you had to fix a light switch, you had to call someone who knew, or figure it out through (expensive and sometimes dangerous) trial and error. As humans, we're actually becoming much more knowledgable as time progresses. Calculus used to be approached in the 3rd or 4th year of an undergraduate math major; now, people get their first exposure in high school, if not before. The average quality of knowledge among people who've "seen calculus" is probably lower, but the bulk number is much higher, and the curve seems to be improving on the whole distribution. I'm actually pretty curious to see what attitudes people born around now (who'll have had iPads or similar products for 15 years by age 18) end up having to education and knowledge. We came of age in a time when it was usual to tolerate not knowing a great deal of stuff. They have a lot more access. Are they going to have a great deal more confidence, or will they succumb instead to apathy as they take it for granted?
- larrys 12y ago
  I'm a fair bit older than you are and remember thinking when the internet came about that I had lost a big advantage over other people since I was someone that was always really good at self teaching and figuring out how to do things given the lack of information out there. (Exactly what you said above basically). When you were barely in pre-school I learned on my own how to fly a gas style rc helicopter (a 60 size which is big) back when if you crashed it you had to rebuild it. And you did crash it. Now I have an electric heli that I can fly in my outer office and it can crash into the wall and not even get damaged. [1][2] The ability to learn like that is amazing. It's almost to easy. The gas heli would chew itself up when it crashed. It was also very expensive (about $2,000 in 80's dollars). Anyway my fear of losing an advantage was not really correct. Things did change. But today the game seems to be "to much information" and deciding what to learn and what opportunities to take advantage of both business and mental. I won't even get into how dating has changed since prior to the internet. [1] (Not to mention all the how to videos on the entire subject in addition to electric (didn't exist back then) and greatly falling prices). [2] Add: And of course all the gyros and electronics that today practically fly the craft themselves didn't exist. I did have one gyro for the tail but you typically self corrected that with the stick anyway on takeoff.
webwright 12y ago
Literally everything is explained on the web/YouTube-- I learned this when I remodeled my house down to the studs with virtually no experience. Need to repoint a chimney? Trim a window? Hang a door? Tile a shower? You're a single search away from knowing how to do almost anything practical... Seconds of research when 20 years ago you'd be hoping in the car and driving to the library in hopes that maybe you could find the best book/pages to get you where you needed to be.
- chubot 12y ago
  Yeah, YouTube is pretty huge. In 2010 I learned a lot of bike maintenance just by watching YouTube. I learned lots of music stuff on the web in the 90's, but having videos is really necessary for a lot of things. Without a video it would be really hard to explain how to change cranks and so forth. It occurred to me that even 5 years before that (2005), I wouldn't have had access to that content.
  - doorhammer 12y ago
    And even if you can't find it online, it's usually not that hard to stumble into a university library and troll through some peer reviewed journals for giggles, or find good books on amazon that are a click and a few days away. One of my favorite books on cycling: http://www.amazon.com/Bicycling-Science-David-Gordon-Wilson/dp/0262731541/ http://www.amazon.com/Bicycling-Science-David-Gordon-Wilson/... Not much practical in that, that I remember, but tons and tons of random articles on odd-ball bike stuff. One of the few books I've purchased and randomly read most of a few times. Really great book.
- the_cat_kittles 12y ago
  I've considered buying a run down house, spending a year fixing it up using youtube, and then selling it for hopefully a profit- I have no doubt I could do a good job with just youtube and the internet, but the only thing stopping me is confidence that I will be able to sell it. Has anyone done something like this?
  - 12y ago
galvanist 12y ago
“It’s just wood” is also a great description of kale.
droob 12y ago
I appreciate the sentiment, but in this case, it's not completely "just wood": http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/treatwood/gardenuse.html http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/treatwood/gardenuse.html
- bytefactory 12y ago
  Just replying to what I think is your objection, apologies if that's not what you meant. I think the point being made was that a lot of things that we think of as outside our domain of expertise, and thus inaccessible, truly aren't. It's worth attempting to construct the garden bed yourself, and you might find that it's not nearly as insurmountable of an obstacle as you'd imagined. In this particular case, treating the wood might have been part of the process of learning how to make the garden bed, as would using a saw, polishing the wood, etc.
- jarin 12y ago
  Treated wood also costs like twice as much. I know that as a guy trying to just plop together a garden box I'd probably go for the cheapest wood that doesn't look like it will fall apart right away.
  - prawn 12y ago
    Treated pine is cheap here in Australia though the treatment is not exactly proven food safe. Untreated will not last. Treated will potentially release chemicals into your soil/food, though you can line the interior of your bed with gardening plastic. There are also slightly more expensive options for treated wood (branded EcoWood and so on) that are a good option. (I have seven 1.2x2.4m raised beds in my garden. Bring in fresh soil otherwise you will get endless cycles of weeds - that's still one of my main problems two years in.)
    - hdevalence 12y ago
      Well, untreated wood won't last, but --- "it's just wood", so you can build a newer, better, one when it rots away.
Kronopath 12y ago
The author here talks about demystifying the kinds of work that you don't think you're capable of. He uses the example of handiwork and building things, but it really goes beyond that—I think this is a really good attitude to take to a lot of aspects of life. Let me give a little personal context. Back when I was a teenager coming out of high school, I was pretty averse to diving into subject matter that I didn't feel comfortable with. I had exactly the same attitude the author disparages here—that sort of "that's for experts to deal with, not me" kind of attitude. But, out of a combined interest in both computers and general science, I ended up entering an engineering degree that was highly general for the first two years. This was the "advanced" sort of engineering stream at the university—higher course loads, more material covered faster, and in areas where I almost certainly wasn't going to be using to make a living. Like most people here, I work in software these days, but during the generalist part of the program I took everything from thermodynamics, to civil engineering, to quantum mechanics, to fluid dynamics, to vector calculus, to molecular biology, to electromagnetics, to material science, to statistics, to electrical circuits, to... you get the picture. I was not prepared for this in the least. A lot of people asked me, "If you already know you have an interest in computers, why are you putting yourself through this instead of going through a standard computer science or computer engineering degree?" It was a question I asked myself very often as well, to the point where I was at one point strongly considering switching out. But I'm glad I didn't, because looking back on it, the biggest thing I got out of it was not the broad scientific background—I can barely remember much of the stuff from the more esoteric courses I took—but the knowledge that I could, in fact, learn these kinds of things in a relatively quick timeframe. That these things were not eternal mysteries, not the exclusive domain of "experts", and that I could, given enough effort, understand them, at least decently enough to do my assignments and pass the course. I tried to keep this lesson in mind moving forward, and still try to keep it today. In my last year, I signed up for a course on compilers, not because I wanted to work on compilers but because I wanted to demystify one of the last things that still seemed mysterious in my day-to-day computer work. Once I started working for a living, I read up on some basic personal finance so I could manage my money properly. Last year, I was unsatisfied with the design of my personal website, so I learned some basic color theory and typography and redesigned it myself. These days, I've been learning Chinese[0]—something most westerners balk at doing—out of personal interest, and the feeling of walking down a street in Chinatown and suddenly realizing, "Hey, I can make out a bit of what's written on the signs now, whereas a few weeks ago it was all incomprehensible hieroglyphics" is incredibly liberating. So this post resonates with me pretty deeply. It's just wood. You shouldn't believe that these things are beyond your grasp, because if you do it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. This spirit of lifelong learning is something I hope never leaves me. The day I stop learning will be the day I die. [0] As mentioned earlier here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623418
nlawalker 12y ago
It's not mystery or even laziness that stops people like myself, it's the consequences of screwing up. I'm happy to explore the mystery if I can afford those consequences.
- ronaldx 12y ago
  The consequences of screwing up a vegetable patch?
  - bluepnume 12y ago
    If you read between the lines, the article isn't about how anyone can build a vegetable patch, it's about how anyone can build (or do) anything, if they can just figure out that it's possible.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - ronaldx 12y ago
      If you read between the lines, I'm saying negative consequences are generally a very poor excuse.
    - prawn 12y ago
      Anyone should be capable of adjusting that mentally to cover what they can and can't realistically do themselves once they stop and think about it a little bit.
  - XL5 12y ago
    You saw what happened in the day of the triffids - would you want to be responsible for that?
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Fear of failure is not always about things that other people understand. Anxiety and fear are powerful emotions and they can have severe impact on behaviour. Some children do not ask for help feom teachers because they fear looking dumb, even though a teacher's role is to take questions and provide help. Some schools recognise this fear of failure is paralysing for some people and they run programmes to overcome it. Here's an example of a good girl's school in England that runs a failure week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16879336 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16879336 The fears involved in a vegetable patch might be: + I never complete projects and this is going to be another one of those + I don't know what I am doing and I am going to waste time and money + I don't know what I am doing and people will mock me ...and so on. These fears are real, but can be overcome with reasonably simple techniques. Those techniques include saying "it's just a vegetable patch; you can't screw it up", but probably using slightly different wording.
GhotiFish 12y ago
You know, I wanted to build a garden box for myself as well. I was unwilling to because I didn't think I could do it right. I wanted to set it up on the side of my deck, but what about weight? That's a fair amount of dirt, maybe the weight might compromise the carrying capacity of the deck... Should I pre drill holes for screws? What kinda screws? Is it a factor? I ask because if I mess it up, and I have no idea what I'm doing so it's likely, I'll make a huuuuuge and unsightly mess for me and my neighbours that I wont be able to clean up without replacing things I damaged on my journey. That's more money, and probably expensive help, and a huge headache, and embarrassment. Even if I completely succeed in everything, how do I know this wont violate some strata laws where I placed it, or maybe I'll violate some sort of building code regulation. Maybe my deck already violates some building code regulation and if I bring attention to it I'll lose my deck. I think if you're telling yourself that nothing could go wrong, that you are not very imaginative. the same goes with servers, the same goes with electricity, the same goes with car repair. It's just wood, except that the wood was treated with something toxic and now your flowers are dead and you've got a big headache in your backyard.
- galvanist 12y ago
  The DIY Garden Box That Destroyed A Nation! You’ve got me wondering about startup culture. When you’re running a startup you presumably invest all your money, borrow from friends and family, get investors, expose yourself to various types of legal liability, sacrifice family time, risk your reputation, and endanger your retirement. A lot of stuff can go wrong. (Based on your garden box of doom example, I’m sure you could enumerate the risks of a startup better than I.) I wonder if people running the typical startup acknowledge the risk and deal with it, or is it mostly a “what could go wrong? / don’t think about it” kinda situation?
  - beachstartup 12y ago
    as a general rule, people who make fear-driven decisions do not start companies. it's the wrong personality type for a variety of reasons. see above: plant a garden on my deck --> city will demolish my deck because of a pre-existing code violation --> better not do that. that is a fear-driven decision. the mind of an entrepreneur works more like this: i want to plant a garden --> do the research --> implement solution --> have confidence to deal with repercussions because you can --> do the research --> implement solution --> etc. the problem with having a personality that is afraid of imaginary problems is the domain of potential problems is massive, infinite even. good luck getting anything done if you're afraid of imaginary problems.
josephschmoe 12y ago
The problem with relying on HN for your comments is that it's time limited. I went through your backlog of posts and found one I wanted to comment on, "The mathematics of team productivity" but found myself unable to do so. Personally, I disagree with your point about multipliers. The engineers that multiply aren't the superstar engineers. They're the ones in the background. They make parts to share with others. They care about architecture and doing things the right way. They do the work that will never, ever make them look like a superstar, because all it does is help other people make widgets. But without it, everyone would have had to make their own solution - or worse, kicked the can down the road. These people, humble or quiet as they are, are increasing the productivity of everyone else on their level. Examples of this kind of work: Improving task management systems, making GUI libraries for the entire team to use, etc.
zb 12y ago
That's a great looking planter bed, nice work! Some things aren't nearly as hard as people think - I took a similar approach to building an actual bed a few months back: http://kiwiandpeach.com/2014/03/20/build-your-own-king-slat-bed/ http://kiwiandpeach.com/2014/03/20/build-your-own-king-slat-... It really is just wood. And fasteners. Also fasteners.
habosa 12y ago
I had this sort of moment, and it's pushing me to want to learn to build real things. Things I can hold. I'm graduating from college and for my senior design project we can do almost anything. One of my professors asked me and a few of my friends to build a guitar-strummer for kids with severe cerebral palsy at a nearby school. We're all bioengineers, and I study CS. We had never built anything more complicated than a Lego. After a few months, here's what we came up with: http://www.instructables.com/id/Musex/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Musex/ It's pretty janky and it's something a mechanical engineer could whip up in a week or two. But we learned a TON building it. There's so much I don't know. I like building things on the computer because there's near-zero marginal cost and you can always start right away. Having to think through a real design and order/build parts really shed some light on getting things done beyond a mouse and keyboard. TL;DR - Go build something. It's very empowering.
deleted 12y ago
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mhartl 12y ago
What resources did you use to learn to turn wood into a raised garden bed? Or was it so simple that you just figured it out on your own?
bryanthompson 12y ago
tl;dr: I got over whatever block I had and built a table & benches I'd been planning for years. In High School, I really enjoyed shop class... after graduation, I bought random small tools and handled some household work, but always had some mental block about going out and buying wood and big tools to build the things I really wanted to tackle. The first project I wanted to take on was to build a replica of the picnic table my grandfather built about 90 years ago. I remember sitting with him at that table many afternoons, planning projects, talking about cars, life, etc. So, this table means a lot to me and even though I've taken care of it, the years have caught up and it is rotting away. I built a Sketchup model of the table in its exact form, then I made a copy and started making minor upgrades (I think he'd approve). Here's the original table along with one of the benches, along with what the updated version is going to look like: http://cl.ly/image/2a2T0S1W280r http://cl.ly/image/2a2T0S1W280r http://cl.ly/image/1j2q3P2d3V2X http://cl.ly/image/1j2q3P2d3V2X There _is_ a certain process and inherent knowledge that people who shop for things like wood, tools, supplies, etc., just inherently know that seem like huge hurdles for nerds like us. It's "just wood" just like it's "just typing" for us. When we're rude to a n00b, think about what "old timer" thinks of you going into his parts store or lumber yard in your khakis asking about stuff you don't know about. MOST of them are encouraging and want to share their knowledge, but it's really up to us as newbies to take initiative and learn how things work. I had an opportunity last month to buy some shop tools (table, radial arm, band saw, sanding equipment), so I decided to finally give it a real shot. First, I got the equipment set up and watched dozens of youtube videos about each piece of equipment - from keeping them clean and working well to calibrating every possible alignment & went to work making sure they were all perfect. Next, I bought a set of precision rulers, protractors, etc., and made some practice cuts on scrap wood I had in the house/garage/etc. Finally, it was time to buy wood. I must have watched 25 youtube videos about not just buying wood, but learning about the various cuts and ratings of wood. All very interesting, and I felt like I could at least identify a good bit of lumber from the bad, and it helped to catch up on some of the terminology & etiquette of the lumberyard. To make a long part of the story short - if you walk into a Lowes or any real lumber yard wearing shop-looking clothes and are carrying a notebook & pen, nobody's going to bother you. You can spend all the time you want looking over the selection, noting prices, etc. Seriously, this was a major milestone for me to realize. I ALWAYS feel rushed when I'm in a store... there was something different and nice about taking time to pick through and find the wood I thought was going to be great. Of course, if you do this, don't make a mess and put everything back the way you found it. Another hurdle was that I didn't think (at first) I could fit lumber in my car. I drive a crossover and discovered that the passenger seat folds flat, leaving plenty of room for 8' lumber. I can fit 10' in diagonally if I let it touch the dash. You might be surprised what you can fit in your car when you fold the seats down & give it a measure. Anyway, with the wood all loaded up, I got home and started planning my cuts. I printed the sketchup model and started documenting everything - making notes of how I can get the most of each board, figuring out which order I should tackle them in, how I'd arrange the mounting bits, etc. Honestly, I probably spent 5 minutes planning for every 30 seconds of cutting. I don't know if that's normal, but it was actually kindof exciting to make some cuts, get out the protractor, and find that I was dead on with what the model said I should be. I wrote WAY more than I expected. This particular post and topic really hit me though. Here are some more pics of the work - I have most of the table completed and ready for assembly. The benches are finished & ready to be sealed, though. They came out pretty well, especially for my first project. http://cl.ly/image/3z2C2F072M1K http://cl.ly/image/3z2C2F072M1K http://cl.ly/image/0Q06180Q2y3q http://cl.ly/image/0Q06180Q2y3q http://cl.ly/image/2U3f3q1n2Y1W http://cl.ly/image/2U3f3q1n2Y1W http://cl.ly/image/1Y3d0l123L35 http://cl.ly/image/1Y3d0l123L35 http://cl.ly/image/1X410N281K11 http://cl.ly/image/1X410N281K11 http://cl.ly/image/3g2k3j3f3E1P http://cl.ly/image/3g2k3j3f3E1P
brc 12y ago
A timely article for me. I'm spending my first day sitting a custom-made sit/stand desk. Tailored to fit exactly in the spot it was designed for, with shelving designed to fit exactly what I wanted. With monitor height at the optimimum for my height and correct posture. Even with a couple of design flourishes I added and a custom designed headset hanger. Granted this is not my first rodeo with woodwork, but the thought of getting a store-bought one-size-fits-all desk was never even considered. I even got to spend many hours in the workshop with my Dad, intermittently discussing the design, tools and approaches with life in general and hearing stories from a time gone by. It's immensely satisfying. And people see it and go 'wow, how do you even build something like that?' Well, first you start with a pile of wood and a design on a piece of paper... trust me, it's a doddle compared with writing code.
dfc 12y ago
Raised beds are to woodworking as early 00s html is to programming.
colechristensen 12y ago
I see a lot of positive reactions here, but reading this is almost upsetting to me. Do we really live in a world where it's a profound realization that a person can screw four boards together in a rectangle to make a garden bed? This is some real top level science fiction stuff where society seems so crippled that an average person can't think to solve the simplest problem without buying a solution. Surely it must not be true.
- HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
  We kinda do live in that world, but I think the HN demographics make it seem worse than it really is. People, especially programmers with tons of disposable income, are used to just buying stuff. Even the ones who think of themselves as "makers:" it's not what they normally make. That frame of mind is as alien to me as it apparently is to you: I grew up around people who just made what they needed to in order to get by with minimal money. Having a professional carpenter as head of household didn't hurt either.
patio11 12y ago
On a related note: as you grow in competence at any skill set, more things move into being "just wood." If you're an accomplished carpenter, a chair is "just wood", even though it might be quite intimidating to someone who has never worked with tools before. The Ogaki tax office is perpetually flabbergasted that I can explain the timing for revenue recognition of SaaS software contracts under Japanese GAAP. It is a direct and fairly obvious consequence of clearly written rules which are in their published guidelines under the heading When To Recognize Revenue. "Just wood."
jmspring 12y ago
The article is a fun read. What I find most interesting for me is that the author needed the nudge to make the leap from "I want to buy X" to "I can build X". Maybe it is just how I was brought up (and the friends I had around me), but myself and a few of my close friends all bought our houses around the same time. We've all done most of the non-annoying work ourselves (electrical, plumbing, tiling, leveling floors/the house, replacing joists, etc). Some of this we learned from our parents or older mentors, some from one another. We also trade labor/help. (Annoying work would be things like refinishing floors, insulation, roofing, etc). The group of friends is a mix of software people, a retired fire fighter, a geologist, etc. When we bought our houses, money wasn't there to pay someone to do the work and we liked doing such. As we've gotten older/more established, some things are worth paying not to do (a new gas line run, for instance). The fact remains, though, most of the things one needs to deal with in a typical day/month/year domestically, you can do yourself. Sometimes the convenience to pay someone makes sense, sometimes the risk of not being comfortable (or maybe not mechanically inclined) is too great, but there are things we pass on to others to do regularly that we can probably do ourselves. Sometimes those things can be quite rewarding/fulfilling. When I bought my house, my dad helped me with replacing all the rusted out galv with copper. He had to head out before things were done. A couple of fittings remained in tight spaces next to very old / dry wood. I did get an appraisal on finishing off some of these; having a couple of plumbers who played up the difficulty and then give a big estimate motivated me to get over my discomfort. I read up on the right way to do things and was extremely careful (and successful) in the endeavor.
fmavituna 12y ago
Isn't it a better choice to focus on what you do, make lots of money then spend extra money to get "exactly" what you want instead of learning stuff because you want to do one thing. How is this any different than buying a component instead of building one yourself. Just because it'll be slightly cheaper, better etc. I get it if you are after the fun and I totally agree no need to be afraid, it's just wood. However why bother if you just want to get results. Just spend $300 on craiglist or something and someone will make it for you, and will be better than yours. I also do understand in early years of life / career it's good to learn many things without going too deep, but later in life it's pretty much not worth it unless you want to switch to something new, or just to have fun (than it's just hobby). If you just want to get results there are better ways.
mempko 12y ago
Damn, I did the exact same thing. I built a raised bd without any experience in that sort of thing. I guess I should have blogged about it.
shawndrost 12y ago
I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor, which this article mentions kindly but with some healthy skepticism surrounding our reported success metrics. If you're curious about how we compute that number, you can read more here: http://www.quora.com/Hack-Reactor/What-are-some-suspected-reasons-why-some-Hack-Reactor-graduates-the-2-are-unable-to-find-software-engineering-jobs-upon-graduation http://www.quora.com/Hack-Reactor/What-are-some-suspected-re...

177 points by plusbryan 12y ago

XL5 12y ago

This is so unbelievably important. Too many people are unwilling to learn how to do the most basic of things to look after themselves. We are intelligent and capable. We should act as such.

omegaworks 12y ago
Specialization is actually one of the wonderful things that fall out of the whole Adam Smith Wealth of Nations Capital system (its why we're not all subsistence farmers). When someone can make something better / faster / stronger then I can, it's a good idea for them to do it and not me. That bed looks like it might not have been finished and sealed properly, he's definitely not using the green-hued pretreated wood. It'll probably rot by the end of the season.
- ChrisClark 12y ago
  It's cedar, like the others have said, you should never use pressure treated wood or any type of sealant in a vegetable garden. I have a cedar raised garden I built 4 years ago. It rains 10 months out of the year here and it's still going strong. No indication of any rot or breaking down. But your comment is important and shows the power of the internet though. If you went to build a garden, you wouldn't just run out and buy pressure treated wood because you know it lasts more. I'm sure you would take the time to research it at least a little bit on the internet. You'd find this out within the first 10 minutes and then go build yourself a great bed.
  - jarin 12y ago
    Also, even if it does break down after a year, you can just plop together a new one. It's just wood.
- Jtsummers 12y ago
  "Specialization is for insects." -- Heinlein A fiction writer, and a fictional character voices it, but seriously, fuck specialization. Sure I'm only a "master" of a couple domains, but familiarity (to the point of competence) in others gives me insight and ideas on how to further my work in my primary and secondary fields of interest/employment.
- danielnaab 12y ago
  Pressure treated wood is toxic. Cedar is a better choice for food applications.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Wood is more durable than that, it will last for at least several years. I wouldn't eat things out of a bed made with pressure treated lumber.
- foobarian 12y ago
  There is something else going on here. The writer's alternative to DIY was likely a time and resource consuming process of searching multiple stores for a suitable product (and even then probably not exactly right). There is a point where the custom product is easy enough to make and hard enough to find off-the-shelf that DIY is a compelling route even for the timid.
- brc 12y ago
  Adam Smiths point is that you should stick to the production of whatever goods you have inherent comparative advantage at. That doesn't mean you should be a mono-skilled person with only a bimodal work/consume life. To be a rounded individual, you need to pick up skills in a lot of different fields, to the point of not being afraid of them. AT the very least, you'll be able to converse to a wide variety of people without feeling like a dumb schmuck.
larrys 12y ago
Yeah but I can see how for people it is really difficult to not fall into the trap of just taking the easier route and not spending the time to do it the hard-er way. But this really all boils down to a version of the "teach a man to fish" thing. The problem is by not learning how to fish (think and solve problems is this example) you are at the mercy of others to do things for you. One thing I can probably say with fair certainty is that if the shit hit the fan some of the people out there running the much aligned "lifestyle" businesses would be able to survive quite well simply because doing that requires you to have skills in many different areas as opposed to people who end up being totally reliant on info and help from others to get anywhere or get by. I hate to have to rely on anyone else and try to learn how to do pretty much anything I can that I might have to repeat at some time in the future if I can find the time to do so. And find that fun.

eps 12y ago

On the other hand, the fact that he was ready to buy pre-made garden bed is the reason why we have all these regex-as-a-service startups. It might be just wood, but then people are just lazy.

RKoutnik 12y ago

Despite claiming I'm 'full stack', I've never done much in the design sphere. Everything seemed so complicated. How do I pick fonts? What's a color scheme? I've recently dived in and while it's complicated, it's entirely possible to learn. People I've never met before were willing to spend 30min of their time going through what I'd done and point out where I could improve. Ask stupid questions* - you'll find many are willing to help out. *After doing proper research, of course.

volune 12y ago
I have never felt that a design was included in the idea of a full-stack software engineer. that would be something id mention separately if I had the skill.
- jarin 12y ago
  It may not be expected, but it's definitely hoped for that you can at least make something that isn't going to make your eyes bleed. The nice thing is nowadays Bootstrap (maybe with a decent theme like Flat UI or Ace Admin) will get you 90% of the way there. Very basic design knowledge will get you the other 10%, and for anything past that you can hire a designer.
  - mgkimsal 12y ago
    There's 'design' and there's 'graphic artist' - sorry for the semantic distinction. There's a lot of basic design you can get from BS or foundation or whatever, and themes and such that all look nice. Coming up with specific artwork to match it (logos, something beyond just typed fonts, etc) is something I classify more as 'graphic art' work vs 'design'. It maybe be a distinction without much of a difference to some, and maybe there's a better way to phrase it, but it's a moderately important distinction in my head for some reason.
- sanderjd 12y ago
  I think the increasingly common desire people have to work for themselves leads to full-stack really meaning full-stack. There are few options: 1) work for a company that employs a designer, 2) work for yourself and pay a designer, 3) work for yourself on something with no GUI, and 4) work for yourself and be able to design. Of those, option (4) is the most tenable for working on something of your own that might make some money without requiring a lot of initial investment. But I do agree with you that on job descriptions, "full-stack" tends to stop at javascript.

synesso 12y ago

"It's just wood" is nowhere near enough information to stop me making a complete mess of a job like that.

jarin 12y ago
Well I guess you do need to know what a 90° angle and nails are, too. I mean, you're not building a four-lane bridge here. If it can hold dirt for a growing season you're all set.
- deleted 12y ago
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dodders 12y ago

Seriously, you don't need a youtube video to explain how to replace a light switch. A screwdriver and a decent amount of curiosity will get you a long way. Plus knowing where the fuse box is, of course...

jarin 12y ago
Well, I mean it's probably good to watch the YouTube video anyway in case you don't know about turning off the fuse box. Might seem obvious in that case, but when you're just learning something you don't know what you don't know yet. Good to at least find out if there's anything that might kill you.
plusbryan 12y ago
And yet people are so scared of them! You're opening up an electrical switch box!?! Won't it explode or something?

sharkweek 12y ago

I love this article -- As a fun aside, I am meticulous about trying to learn every little detail I can about problems that arise with both my car and my house (it drives my wife crazy). I am an extremely "unhandy" person, but I still love giving it a go. This has led to the following two most common scenarios: 1) I fix the problem at hand after some trial and error, saving lots of money on an expensive service call (fixed a leaky sink, repaired a lawn mower, etc). 2) I make things (way) worse, thus costing a lot more money than it should (my car's exhaust system, the sewer line from our house, etc). I'm likely sitting at a zero sum; all well worth it.

justinsteele 12y ago
In the beginning it's tough to determine what is worth contracting out and what is not. After you spend some time experimenting (and often having it all come out in the wash as you saw), you can gain a better sense of when to call in an "expert" and what to DIY.
brc 12y ago
Not over time. Each failure is knowledge banked away, knowledge that is often cross-applicable to other situations. Even for skilled tradesmen, there is always the possibilty of having a job go bad and having to eat the cost of putting it right. Some of the jobs I have tackled myself make friends stare in disbelief. I always figure 'a human made this thing, a human can fix it'.
lostlogin 12y ago
Regarding point 2. If the problem reoccurs, you're now either capable or no your not, which is either a time or money saving. Additionally, how many "professional" jobs have you paid for that have turned out to be a simple exercise without cost or time blowouts or call backs. I'll bet it isn't zero.

larrys 12y ago

I think what is lost today, with the ability on youtube to see how to do everything, is a common sense and old school approach of the way things used to be done. That is, by thinking about it and trying to figure it out without knowing exactly how. The other day I was helping my wife assemble something for a school project for the kids. While I am not a woodworker (and have never taken a course, read books or watched videos) I am able just using common sense to put something together and figure it out and have a workable problem solving piece of wood object [1]. My wife insisted on telling me what the guy at the Home Depot and the instructions said we needed as far as size of screws or wood but I saw it differently, visually, as far as what would hold the wood together to solve the problem. It was much easier for me that way. Later I described that we probably would want to counter sink the screws as well and did that by simply taking a larger drill bit and drilling a bit after a pilot hole. After starting this I decided to do a youtube search out of curiosity and found video in great detail and somewhat lengthily describing how to counter sink a screw in wood and how there was a special bit just to do that. While that amount of info and detail might be needed by a professional making furniture (and actually I don't even think that is the case if you are good you can usually make do with much less) my approach worked fine and I saved time by not having to remember all these excess details that really (imo) weren't needed. I sometimes wonder if people who have grown up in the youtube era (or the era of having everything a click away) are somehow going to be disadvantaged by not having to spend much time thinking of solutions to problems and making mistakes and learning from them. [2] [1] An example of this would be the jigs I built for a battery backup system I did many years ago using heavy industrial batteries. I need a pad to rest the 150lb batteries on as well as a dolly to move the batteries. I just winged it and built something that ended up working pretty well out of 2x4's. Much easier than following instructions actually. I also built the wiring between batteries by going to an auto parts store and a bunch of other things to make a workable battery backup system for way less than a traditional UPS. Would run the equipment for about 24 hours (6 150lb industrial batteries in parallel hooked up to an inverter and line conditioner. Figured that one out, tested worked for about 8 to 10 years and never had any down time). [2] Today when you need to know syntax you do a search and the answer is there. Back in olden days you had a book or two and maybe a manual and you could iterate for hours trying to figure out which command line option (using Unix as the example here) actually did what you needed.

araes 12y ago

"Most people let mystery stop them" I actually find this true in other fields, or domains as well. Its not so much mystery in the more general case, but uncertainty. For example, some people find talking to boards, or VC folks, or executive officers terrifying, because of what I call uncertainty. This sense that they're alien, or different, or not understandable. Unfortunately though, they're just people, and they often respond the same way normal people respond to things, just from a different background and set of needs / motivations. Or, "I could start on my next project, but its so vast, and there is so much complexity. What would I even do?" But, once de-constructed, and taken in bite size pieces, each piece is knowable, and suddenly the uncertainty is gone. Good, short piece of advice article.

michaelochurch 12y ago

Sometimes I feel like I had the bizarre privilege (and, yes, I do count it as such, if only because I value diversity in experience) of growing up in the Dark Ages... and I'm not that old (born in 1983). Up to about 15 years ago, people had to just accept not knowing things that are now easy to find on the Internet. If, to use one of the OP's examples, you had to fix a light switch, you had to call someone who knew, or figure it out through (expensive and sometimes dangerous) trial and error. As humans, we're actually becoming much more knowledgable as time progresses. Calculus used to be approached in the 3rd or 4th year of an undergraduate math major; now, people get their first exposure in high school, if not before. The average quality of knowledge among people who've "seen calculus" is probably lower, but the bulk number is much higher, and the curve seems to be improving on the whole distribution. I'm actually pretty curious to see what attitudes people born around now (who'll have had iPads or similar products for 15 years by age 18) end up having to education and knowledge. We came of age in a time when it was usual to tolerate not knowing a great deal of stuff. They have a lot more access. Are they going to have a great deal more confidence, or will they succumb instead to apathy as they take it for granted?

larrys 12y ago
I'm a fair bit older than you are and remember thinking when the internet came about that I had lost a big advantage over other people since I was someone that was always really good at self teaching and figuring out how to do things given the lack of information out there. (Exactly what you said above basically). When you were barely in pre-school I learned on my own how to fly a gas style rc helicopter (a 60 size which is big) back when if you crashed it you had to rebuild it. And you did crash it. Now I have an electric heli that I can fly in my outer office and it can crash into the wall and not even get damaged. [1][2] The ability to learn like that is amazing. It's almost to easy. The gas heli would chew itself up when it crashed. It was also very expensive (about $2,000 in 80's dollars). Anyway my fear of losing an advantage was not really correct. Things did change. But today the game seems to be "to much information" and deciding what to learn and what opportunities to take advantage of both business and mental. I won't even get into how dating has changed since prior to the internet. [1] (Not to mention all the how to videos on the entire subject in addition to electric (didn't exist back then) and greatly falling prices). [2] Add: And of course all the gyros and electronics that today practically fly the craft themselves didn't exist. I did have one gyro for the tail but you typically self corrected that with the stick anyway on takeoff.

webwright 12y ago

Literally everything is explained on the web/YouTube-- I learned this when I remodeled my house down to the studs with virtually no experience. Need to repoint a chimney? Trim a window? Hang a door? Tile a shower? You're a single search away from knowing how to do almost anything practical... Seconds of research when 20 years ago you'd be hoping in the car and driving to the library in hopes that maybe you could find the best book/pages to get you where you needed to be.

chubot 12y ago
Yeah, YouTube is pretty huge. In 2010 I learned a lot of bike maintenance just by watching YouTube. I learned lots of music stuff on the web in the 90's, but having videos is really necessary for a lot of things. Without a video it would be really hard to explain how to change cranks and so forth. It occurred to me that even 5 years before that (2005), I wouldn't have had access to that content.
- doorhammer 12y ago
  And even if you can't find it online, it's usually not that hard to stumble into a university library and troll through some peer reviewed journals for giggles, or find good books on amazon that are a click and a few days away. One of my favorite books on cycling: http://www.amazon.com/Bicycling-Science-David-Gordon-Wilson/dp/0262731541/ http://www.amazon.com/Bicycling-Science-David-Gordon-Wilson/... Not much practical in that, that I remember, but tons and tons of random articles on odd-ball bike stuff. One of the few books I've purchased and randomly read most of a few times. Really great book.
the_cat_kittles 12y ago
I've considered buying a run down house, spending a year fixing it up using youtube, and then selling it for hopefully a profit- I have no doubt I could do a good job with just youtube and the internet, but the only thing stopping me is confidence that I will be able to sell it. Has anyone done something like this?
- 12y ago

galvanist 12y ago

“It’s just wood” is also a great description of kale.

droob 12y ago

I appreciate the sentiment, but in this case, it's not completely "just wood": http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/treatwood/gardenuse.html http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/ptype/treatwood/gardenuse.html

bytefactory 12y ago
Just replying to what I think is your objection, apologies if that's not what you meant. I think the point being made was that a lot of things that we think of as outside our domain of expertise, and thus inaccessible, truly aren't. It's worth attempting to construct the garden bed yourself, and you might find that it's not nearly as insurmountable of an obstacle as you'd imagined. In this particular case, treating the wood might have been part of the process of learning how to make the garden bed, as would using a saw, polishing the wood, etc.
jarin 12y ago
Treated wood also costs like twice as much. I know that as a guy trying to just plop together a garden box I'd probably go for the cheapest wood that doesn't look like it will fall apart right away.
- prawn 12y ago
  Treated pine is cheap here in Australia though the treatment is not exactly proven food safe. Untreated will not last. Treated will potentially release chemicals into your soil/food, though you can line the interior of your bed with gardening plastic. There are also slightly more expensive options for treated wood (branded EcoWood and so on) that are a good option. (I have seven 1.2x2.4m raised beds in my garden. Bring in fresh soil otherwise you will get endless cycles of weeds - that's still one of my main problems two years in.)
  - hdevalence 12y ago
    Well, untreated wood won't last, but --- "it's just wood", so you can build a newer, better, one when it rots away.

Kronopath 12y ago

The author here talks about demystifying the kinds of work that you don't think you're capable of. He uses the example of handiwork and building things, but it really goes beyond that—I think this is a really good attitude to take to a lot of aspects of life. Let me give a little personal context. Back when I was a teenager coming out of high school, I was pretty averse to diving into subject matter that I didn't feel comfortable with. I had exactly the same attitude the author disparages here—that sort of "that's for experts to deal with, not me" kind of attitude. But, out of a combined interest in both computers and general science, I ended up entering an engineering degree that was highly general for the first two years. This was the "advanced" sort of engineering stream at the university—higher course loads, more material covered faster, and in areas where I almost certainly wasn't going to be using to make a living. Like most people here, I work in software these days, but during the generalist part of the program I took everything from thermodynamics, to civil engineering, to quantum mechanics, to fluid dynamics, to vector calculus, to molecular biology, to electromagnetics, to material science, to statistics, to electrical circuits, to... you get the picture. I was not prepared for this in the least. A lot of people asked me, "If you already know you have an interest in computers, why are you putting yourself through this instead of going through a standard computer science or computer engineering degree?" It was a question I asked myself very often as well, to the point where I was at one point strongly considering switching out. But I'm glad I didn't, because looking back on it, the biggest thing I got out of it was not the broad scientific background—I can barely remember much of the stuff from the more esoteric courses I took—but the knowledge that I could, in fact, learn these kinds of things in a relatively quick timeframe. That these things were not eternal mysteries, not the exclusive domain of "experts", and that I could, given enough effort, understand them, at least decently enough to do my assignments and pass the course. I tried to keep this lesson in mind moving forward, and still try to keep it today. In my last year, I signed up for a course on compilers, not because I wanted to work on compilers but because I wanted to demystify one of the last things that still seemed mysterious in my day-to-day computer work. Once I started working for a living, I read up on some basic personal finance so I could manage my money properly. Last year, I was unsatisfied with the design of my personal website, so I learned some basic color theory and typography and redesigned it myself. These days, I've been learning Chinese[0]—something most westerners balk at doing—out of personal interest, and the feeling of walking down a street in Chinatown and suddenly realizing, "Hey, I can make out a bit of what's written on the signs now, whereas a few weeks ago it was all incomprehensible hieroglyphics" is incredibly liberating. So this post resonates with me pretty deeply. It's just wood. You shouldn't believe that these things are beyond your grasp, because if you do it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. This spirit of lifelong learning is something I hope never leaves me. The day I stop learning will be the day I die. [0] As mentioned earlier here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7623418

nlawalker 12y ago

It's not mystery or even laziness that stops people like myself, it's the consequences of screwing up. I'm happy to explore the mystery if I can afford those consequences.

ronaldx 12y ago
The consequences of screwing up a vegetable patch?
- bluepnume 12y ago
  If you read between the lines, the article isn't about how anyone can build a vegetable patch, it's about how anyone can build (or do) anything, if they can just figure out that it's possible.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - ronaldx 12y ago
    If you read between the lines, I'm saying negative consequences are generally a very poor excuse.
  - prawn 12y ago
    Anyone should be capable of adjusting that mentally to cover what they can and can't realistically do themselves once they stop and think about it a little bit.
- XL5 12y ago
  You saw what happened in the day of the triffids - would you want to be responsible for that?
- DanBC 12y ago
  Fear of failure is not always about things that other people understand. Anxiety and fear are powerful emotions and they can have severe impact on behaviour. Some children do not ask for help feom teachers because they fear looking dumb, even though a teacher's role is to take questions and provide help. Some schools recognise this fear of failure is paralysing for some people and they run programmes to overcome it. Here's an example of a good girl's school in England that runs a failure week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16879336 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16879336 The fears involved in a vegetable patch might be: + I never complete projects and this is going to be another one of those + I don't know what I am doing and I am going to waste time and money + I don't know what I am doing and people will mock me ...and so on. These fears are real, but can be overcome with reasonably simple techniques. Those techniques include saying "it's just a vegetable patch; you can't screw it up", but probably using slightly different wording.

GhotiFish 12y ago

You know, I wanted to build a garden box for myself as well. I was unwilling to because I didn't think I could do it right. I wanted to set it up on the side of my deck, but what about weight? That's a fair amount of dirt, maybe the weight might compromise the carrying capacity of the deck... Should I pre drill holes for screws? What kinda screws? Is it a factor? I ask because if I mess it up, and I have no idea what I'm doing so it's likely, I'll make a huuuuuge and unsightly mess for me and my neighbours that I wont be able to clean up without replacing things I damaged on my journey. That's more money, and probably expensive help, and a huge headache, and embarrassment. Even if I completely succeed in everything, how do I know this wont violate some strata laws where I placed it, or maybe I'll violate some sort of building code regulation. Maybe my deck already violates some building code regulation and if I bring attention to it I'll lose my deck. I think if you're telling yourself that nothing could go wrong, that you are not very imaginative. the same goes with servers, the same goes with electricity, the same goes with car repair. It's just wood, except that the wood was treated with something toxic and now your flowers are dead and you've got a big headache in your backyard.

galvanist 12y ago
The DIY Garden Box That Destroyed A Nation! You’ve got me wondering about startup culture. When you’re running a startup you presumably invest all your money, borrow from friends and family, get investors, expose yourself to various types of legal liability, sacrifice family time, risk your reputation, and endanger your retirement. A lot of stuff can go wrong. (Based on your garden box of doom example, I’m sure you could enumerate the risks of a startup better than I.) I wonder if people running the typical startup acknowledge the risk and deal with it, or is it mostly a “what could go wrong? / don’t think about it” kinda situation?
- beachstartup 12y ago
  as a general rule, people who make fear-driven decisions do not start companies. it's the wrong personality type for a variety of reasons. see above: plant a garden on my deck --> city will demolish my deck because of a pre-existing code violation --> better not do that. that is a fear-driven decision. the mind of an entrepreneur works more like this: i want to plant a garden --> do the research --> implement solution --> have confidence to deal with repercussions because you can --> do the research --> implement solution --> etc. the problem with having a personality that is afraid of imaginary problems is the domain of potential problems is massive, infinite even. good luck getting anything done if you're afraid of imaginary problems.

josephschmoe 12y ago

The problem with relying on HN for your comments is that it's time limited. I went through your backlog of posts and found one I wanted to comment on, "The mathematics of team productivity" but found myself unable to do so. Personally, I disagree with your point about multipliers. The engineers that multiply aren't the superstar engineers. They're the ones in the background. They make parts to share with others. They care about architecture and doing things the right way. They do the work that will never, ever make them look like a superstar, because all it does is help other people make widgets. But without it, everyone would have had to make their own solution - or worse, kicked the can down the road. These people, humble or quiet as they are, are increasing the productivity of everyone else on their level. Examples of this kind of work: Improving task management systems, making GUI libraries for the entire team to use, etc.

zb 12y ago

That's a great looking planter bed, nice work! Some things aren't nearly as hard as people think - I took a similar approach to building an actual bed a few months back: http://kiwiandpeach.com/2014/03/20/build-your-own-king-slat-bed/ http://kiwiandpeach.com/2014/03/20/build-your-own-king-slat-... It really is just wood. And fasteners. Also fasteners.

habosa 12y ago

I had this sort of moment, and it's pushing me to want to learn to build real things. Things I can hold. I'm graduating from college and for my senior design project we can do almost anything. One of my professors asked me and a few of my friends to build a guitar-strummer for kids with severe cerebral palsy at a nearby school. We're all bioengineers, and I study CS. We had never built anything more complicated than a Lego. After a few months, here's what we came up with: http://www.instructables.com/id/Musex/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Musex/ It's pretty janky and it's something a mechanical engineer could whip up in a week or two. But we learned a TON building it. There's so much I don't know. I like building things on the computer because there's near-zero marginal cost and you can always start right away. Having to think through a real design and order/build parts really shed some light on getting things done beyond a mouse and keyboard. TL;DR - Go build something. It's very empowering.

deleted 12y ago

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mhartl 12y ago

What resources did you use to learn to turn wood into a raised garden bed? Or was it so simple that you just figured it out on your own?

bryanthompson 12y ago

tl;dr: I got over whatever block I had and built a table & benches I'd been planning for years. In High School, I really enjoyed shop class... after graduation, I bought random small tools and handled some household work, but always had some mental block about going out and buying wood and big tools to build the things I really wanted to tackle. The first project I wanted to take on was to build a replica of the picnic table my grandfather built about 90 years ago. I remember sitting with him at that table many afternoons, planning projects, talking about cars, life, etc. So, this table means a lot to me and even though I've taken care of it, the years have caught up and it is rotting away. I built a Sketchup model of the table in its exact form, then I made a copy and started making minor upgrades (I think he'd approve). Here's the original table along with one of the benches, along with what the updated version is going to look like: http://cl.ly/image/2a2T0S1W280r http://cl.ly/image/2a2T0S1W280r http://cl.ly/image/1j2q3P2d3V2X http://cl.ly/image/1j2q3P2d3V2X There _is_ a certain process and inherent knowledge that people who shop for things like wood, tools, supplies, etc., just inherently know that seem like huge hurdles for nerds like us. It's "just wood" just like it's "just typing" for us. When we're rude to a n00b, think about what "old timer" thinks of you going into his parts store or lumber yard in your khakis asking about stuff you don't know about. MOST of them are encouraging and want to share their knowledge, but it's really up to us as newbies to take initiative and learn how things work. I had an opportunity last month to buy some shop tools (table, radial arm, band saw, sanding equipment), so I decided to finally give it a real shot. First, I got the equipment set up and watched dozens of youtube videos about each piece of equipment - from keeping them clean and working well to calibrating every possible alignment & went to work making sure they were all perfect. Next, I bought a set of precision rulers, protractors, etc., and made some practice cuts on scrap wood I had in the house/garage/etc. Finally, it was time to buy wood. I must have watched 25 youtube videos about not just buying wood, but learning about the various cuts and ratings of wood. All very interesting, and I felt like I could at least identify a good bit of lumber from the bad, and it helped to catch up on some of the terminology & etiquette of the lumberyard. To make a long part of the story short - if you walk into a Lowes or any real lumber yard wearing shop-looking clothes and are carrying a notebook & pen, nobody's going to bother you. You can spend all the time you want looking over the selection, noting prices, etc. Seriously, this was a major milestone for me to realize. I ALWAYS feel rushed when I'm in a store... there was something different and nice about taking time to pick through and find the wood I thought was going to be great. Of course, if you do this, don't make a mess and put everything back the way you found it. Another hurdle was that I didn't think (at first) I could fit lumber in my car. I drive a crossover and discovered that the passenger seat folds flat, leaving plenty of room for 8' lumber. I can fit 10' in diagonally if I let it touch the dash. You might be surprised what you can fit in your car when you fold the seats down & give it a measure. Anyway, with the wood all loaded up, I got home and started planning my cuts. I printed the sketchup model and started documenting everything - making notes of how I can get the most of each board, figuring out which order I should tackle them in, how I'd arrange the mounting bits, etc. Honestly, I probably spent 5 minutes planning for every 30 seconds of cutting. I don't know if that's normal, but it was actually kindof exciting to make some cuts, get out the protractor, and find that I was dead on with what the model said I should be. I wrote WAY more than I expected. This particular post and topic really hit me though. Here are some more pics of the work - I have most of the table completed and ready for assembly. The benches are finished & ready to be sealed, though. They came out pretty well, especially for my first project. http://cl.ly/image/3z2C2F072M1K http://cl.ly/image/3z2C2F072M1K http://cl.ly/image/0Q06180Q2y3q http://cl.ly/image/0Q06180Q2y3q http://cl.ly/image/2U3f3q1n2Y1W http://cl.ly/image/2U3f3q1n2Y1W http://cl.ly/image/1Y3d0l123L35 http://cl.ly/image/1Y3d0l123L35 http://cl.ly/image/1X410N281K11 http://cl.ly/image/1X410N281K11 http://cl.ly/image/3g2k3j3f3E1P http://cl.ly/image/3g2k3j3f3E1P

brc 12y ago

A timely article for me. I'm spending my first day sitting a custom-made sit/stand desk. Tailored to fit exactly in the spot it was designed for, with shelving designed to fit exactly what I wanted. With monitor height at the optimimum for my height and correct posture. Even with a couple of design flourishes I added and a custom designed headset hanger. Granted this is not my first rodeo with woodwork, but the thought of getting a store-bought one-size-fits-all desk was never even considered. I even got to spend many hours in the workshop with my Dad, intermittently discussing the design, tools and approaches with life in general and hearing stories from a time gone by. It's immensely satisfying. And people see it and go 'wow, how do you even build something like that?' Well, first you start with a pile of wood and a design on a piece of paper... trust me, it's a doddle compared with writing code.

dfc 12y ago

Raised beds are to woodworking as early 00s html is to programming.

colechristensen 12y ago

I see a lot of positive reactions here, but reading this is almost upsetting to me. Do we really live in a world where it's a profound realization that a person can screw four boards together in a rectangle to make a garden bed? This is some real top level science fiction stuff where society seems so crippled that an average person can't think to solve the simplest problem without buying a solution. Surely it must not be true.

HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
We kinda do live in that world, but I think the HN demographics make it seem worse than it really is. People, especially programmers with tons of disposable income, are used to just buying stuff. Even the ones who think of themselves as "makers:" it's not what they normally make. That frame of mind is as alien to me as it apparently is to you: I grew up around people who just made what they needed to in order to get by with minimal money. Having a professional carpenter as head of household didn't hurt either.

patio11 12y ago

On a related note: as you grow in competence at any skill set, more things move into being "just wood." If you're an accomplished carpenter, a chair is "just wood", even though it might be quite intimidating to someone who has never worked with tools before. The Ogaki tax office is perpetually flabbergasted that I can explain the timing for revenue recognition of SaaS software contracts under Japanese GAAP. It is a direct and fairly obvious consequence of clearly written rules which are in their published guidelines under the heading When To Recognize Revenue. "Just wood."

jmspring 12y ago

The article is a fun read. What I find most interesting for me is that the author needed the nudge to make the leap from "I want to buy X" to "I can build X". Maybe it is just how I was brought up (and the friends I had around me), but myself and a few of my close friends all bought our houses around the same time. We've all done most of the non-annoying work ourselves (electrical, plumbing, tiling, leveling floors/the house, replacing joists, etc). Some of this we learned from our parents or older mentors, some from one another. We also trade labor/help. (Annoying work would be things like refinishing floors, insulation, roofing, etc). The group of friends is a mix of software people, a retired fire fighter, a geologist, etc. When we bought our houses, money wasn't there to pay someone to do the work and we liked doing such. As we've gotten older/more established, some things are worth paying not to do (a new gas line run, for instance). The fact remains, though, most of the things one needs to deal with in a typical day/month/year domestically, you can do yourself. Sometimes the convenience to pay someone makes sense, sometimes the risk of not being comfortable (or maybe not mechanically inclined) is too great, but there are things we pass on to others to do regularly that we can probably do ourselves. Sometimes those things can be quite rewarding/fulfilling. When I bought my house, my dad helped me with replacing all the rusted out galv with copper. He had to head out before things were done. A couple of fittings remained in tight spaces next to very old / dry wood. I did get an appraisal on finishing off some of these; having a couple of plumbers who played up the difficulty and then give a big estimate motivated me to get over my discomfort. I read up on the right way to do things and was extremely careful (and successful) in the endeavor.

fmavituna 12y ago

Isn't it a better choice to focus on what you do, make lots of money then spend extra money to get "exactly" what you want instead of learning stuff because you want to do one thing. How is this any different than buying a component instead of building one yourself. Just because it'll be slightly cheaper, better etc. I get it if you are after the fun and I totally agree no need to be afraid, it's just wood. However why bother if you just want to get results. Just spend $300 on craiglist or something and someone will make it for you, and will be better than yours. I also do understand in early years of life / career it's good to learn many things without going too deep, but later in life it's pretty much not worth it unless you want to switch to something new, or just to have fun (than it's just hobby). If you just want to get results there are better ways.

mempko 12y ago

Damn, I did the exact same thing. I built a raised bd without any experience in that sort of thing. I guess I should have blogged about it.

shawndrost 12y ago

I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor, which this article mentions kindly but with some healthy skepticism surrounding our reported success metrics. If you're curious about how we compute that number, you can read more here: http://www.quora.com/Hack-Reactor/What-are-some-suspected-reasons-why-some-Hack-Reactor-graduates-the-2-are-unable-to-find-software-engineering-jobs-upon-graduation http://www.quora.com/Hack-Reactor/What-are-some-suspected-re...