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I recently found out my friend of many years and flatmate, a very skilled programmer, was making about minimum wage and had been for all of his working life (15

I recently found out my friend of many years and flatmate, a very skilled programmer, was making about minimum wage and had been for all of his working life (15+ years). These people exist. I told him he was getting shafted hard, and convinced him to go demand a raise. Sure enough, the next day he told me his boss doubled his pay as soon as he asked. He just never had the confidence to ask before.

dnissley 12y ago
I'm just now getting out of a situation like this that I've been in for 7 years. It's a position that I got after I dropped out of a CS program after the first year, and my inexperience and lack of education made me feel like I didn't deserve all that much. But I did my job well, orders of magnitude better than some of my coworkers. I clued up about 2 years ago, and have been asking for more and more money on a regular basis. The breaking point was when I asked for a certain amount and they literally laughed at me. I immediately started making plans to leave. Next monday I start a new job where I will finally be making more than my age in dollars per hour.
danielweber 12y ago
My personal rules for maximizing my pay: 1. Don't have my head up my ass. It can be hard. I can totally imagine myself being your flatmate in a parallel universe. This should be required reading for each of us at least once a year: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
- Xdes 12y ago
  I wish I had read this before my job interview. I feel like I'm getting lowballed when I thought the offer I got was great. I'll definitely read this before my next job interview. Does this apply to freelance rate negotiation too?
  - danielweber 12y ago
    Honestly I just screwed it up a few days ago myself. I let myself get backed into the corner of talking about my salary history. And it's not the first time I've done it, not even the first time year since reading that essay.
    - Xdes 12y ago
      It is the same for me. I wish I could give you a pat on the back.
r00fus 12y ago
Double minimum wage still sounds crazy low. Hopefully his experience will give your friend fresh perspective on requesting a fair wage going forward.
- sukuriant 12y ago
  Depends on the location. Software devs aren't as highly loved in places that aren't The Valley and other tech hubs
  - r00fus 12y ago
    I guess also of note is that in the USA, minimum wage is not a livable wage and would likely put the employee close to the poverty line even for a full-time hourly job (which is often not given because then the employer would be required to provide health insurance). Is that the case where you live?
    - sukuriant 12y ago
      I know people that survive on just above minimum wage and even pay for their own housing. They almost always make rent, but until they both started working, it was very, very close. I'm actually surprised that they can survive. They don't eat very often or well... or didn't. I think that's improved since both of them are working now; but... yes. But yes, I know a person. He has full time, surprisingly, but he refused health care BECAUSE he wouldn't be able to survive, and he is making more than minimum wage.
nathan_f77 12y ago
That is one of the most depressing things I've ever read.
eric_h 12y ago
This was me for about the first 5-6 years of my career, then I was able to double my salary twice in two years (and had some more modest raises/bonuses since). Definitely valuable to know what you're actually worth on the market, I didn't learn that until I got involved in the NYC startup scene.

dnissley 12y ago

I'm just now getting out of a situation like this that I've been in for 7 years. It's a position that I got after I dropped out of a CS program after the first year, and my inexperience and lack of education made me feel like I didn't deserve all that much. But I did my job well, orders of magnitude better than some of my coworkers. I clued up about 2 years ago, and have been asking for more and more money on a regular basis. The breaking point was when I asked for a certain amount and they literally laughed at me. I immediately started making plans to leave. Next monday I start a new job where I will finally be making more than my age in dollars per hour.

danielweber 12y ago

My personal rules for maximizing my pay: 1. Don't have my head up my ass. It can be hard. I can totally imagine myself being your flatmate in a parallel universe. This should be required reading for each of us at least once a year: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

Xdes 12y ago
I wish I had read this before my job interview. I feel like I'm getting lowballed when I thought the offer I got was great. I'll definitely read this before my next job interview. Does this apply to freelance rate negotiation too?
- danielweber 12y ago
  Honestly I just screwed it up a few days ago myself. I let myself get backed into the corner of talking about my salary history. And it's not the first time I've done it, not even the first time year since reading that essay.
  - Xdes 12y ago
    It is the same for me. I wish I could give you a pat on the back.

r00fus 12y ago

Double minimum wage still sounds crazy low. Hopefully his experience will give your friend fresh perspective on requesting a fair wage going forward.

sukuriant 12y ago
Depends on the location. Software devs aren't as highly loved in places that aren't The Valley and other tech hubs
- r00fus 12y ago
  I guess also of note is that in the USA, minimum wage is not a livable wage and would likely put the employee close to the poverty line even for a full-time hourly job (which is often not given because then the employer would be required to provide health insurance). Is that the case where you live?
  - sukuriant 12y ago
    I know people that survive on just above minimum wage and even pay for their own housing. They almost always make rent, but until they both started working, it was very, very close. I'm actually surprised that they can survive. They don't eat very often or well... or didn't. I think that's improved since both of them are working now; but... yes. But yes, I know a person. He has full time, surprisingly, but he refused health care BECAUSE he wouldn't be able to survive, and he is making more than minimum wage.

nathan_f77 12y ago

That is one of the most depressing things I've ever read.

eric_h 12y ago

This was me for about the first 5-6 years of my career, then I was able to double my salary twice in two years (and had some more modest raises/bonuses since). Definitely valuable to know what you're actually worth on the market, I didn't learn that until I got involved in the NYC startup scene.