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BizSpark is really great. In the article's case, they're not using Microsoft technologies, but in my case, I use Microsoft at work and I'm very comfortable with

BizSpark is really great. In the article's case, they're not using Microsoft technologies, but in my case, I use Microsoft at work and I'm very comfortable with their tools. For a side project, we'd started out with an unfamiliar stack (Grails + Postgre hosted on Amazon AWS), and kept running into roadblocks (not the tech stack's fault), but we missed some very nice enabling technologies with Microsoft software. So, when we signed up with BizSpark, we started using Azure, and we're now leveraging the SQL geolocation capabilities (which Postgre also has), and our knowledge of .NET. As the article says, you don't need to use the Microsoft stack, but if you're used to it, it's a HUGE enabler (we had discarded using Microsoft at first due to the perceived cost). I'm a believer that, for an MVP, you have to keep to whichever technology you're comfortable with. In my case, it was the Microsoft stack.

nyrina 12y ago
Just be careful down the line. Those costs you are talking about are still there, they are only delayed because of BizSpark. Having BizSpark did wonders to the company I'm in, but when the 3 years ended, there was a lot of hard work and even more tears because of it. BizSpark's entire reason for existence is to lock you into Microsoft products, especially their SQL server.
- ryanjshaw 12y ago
  What were the problems you encountered? As a potential BizSpark user my impression was that: - after 3 years I get to keep using the licenses I acquired, leaving only hosting costs to be concerned about - if I don't have enough capital/revenue to cover my hosting costs at that point it's highly likely my business is not worthwhile pursuing further anyway - for my particular solution I don't envision needing much server power (and what's provided is pretty powerful) so additional licensing costs are not a problem (I can see this being an issue for other businesses)
  - scoj 12y ago
    You're right on. I am using Bizspark. The software you get is free to keep. When you start out it feels like hosting costs are expensive. But if you are making money (and money is the validator in my opinion) then it becomes negligible. I thought about learning a new language when I started, but figured the time would be better spent learning the language/skills of sales and marketing. (My day job at a small profitable startup and my side SaaS product are both .net
  - avenger123 12y ago
    The problem is that there is always going to be a new Windows Server release, plus a new SQL Server release. Even if you keep your licenses, are you going to stay on that version for the lifespan of the system? Likely not. Then you start to pay. For the database, the OS plus SQL Server Standard is still going to be around $15K (this was around 4-5 years ago when I was involved with this). Now this is just one instance. Multiple that by multiple servers and instances and you will reach upwards of 6 figures for your costs. I guess the numbers work out differently for cloud but I don't imagine they would be that far off. For example, if my Azure costs are $10K a month, from that cost is likely $2K-$3K the Microsoft tax. Keep scaling your VMs and servers and that margin starts to look a bit less palatable. If you know the limits of your business, then it's probably not an issue. I think the sweet spot would be to use Postgresql for the database and Microsoft for the rest, as most of the cost is SQL Server for systems that aren't in the full Microsoft eco-system (BizTalk, SharePoint,etc.)
    - ktavera 12y ago
      Licensing costs are not really an issue when you're on Azure. If your app ran fine under the BizSpark program subsidy of $150/month of azure credit then when you're out of the program you'd just have to pick up the $150/month hosting cost, not suddenly have to pay $15k+ for a MSSQL or Windows Server license.
      - avenger123 12y ago
        I know that. I didn't make it explicit in my comment. The Microsoft tax I mentioned with Azure is the licensing costs. Microsoft isn't just going to give out SQL Server for free and just charge for the VMs and bandwidth. There is premium pricing for SQL Server and BizTalk and custom licensing pricing for SharePoint and Oracle software. Being on Azure doesn't mean you get a break on the licensing costs. They just amortize the cost over the hour the VM is up. EDIT: Fair point on the hosting cost being known and acceptable right from the start. I also don't mean to imply that you are not aware of the licensing costs, just wanted to make it clear. For real businesses, at some point it makes more sense to build their own "private cloud" and at this point these issues become relevant but for most start-ups, it's likely just not going to be an issue.
  - NicoJuicy 12y ago
    If you are an MSDN subscriber, you also get discounts on the Azure cloud for testing and dev porposes http://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/member-offers/msdn-benefits-details/ http://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/member-offers/msdn-... TLDR? 33% on VM's, 25% on cloud and then according your MSDN subscription 40 - 115 €/ month.
adrr 12y ago
I used bizspark at my last job but didn't use Azure. We were on AWS, and it applied just fine to EC2 instances running Windows Server(you don't pay the additional costs for ms licensing). Only thing it didn't work on was the MSSQL RDS instances we had, we ended up running our own Mssql server. One thing to note, you can also get credits from AWS if you're a startup. I've seen $25k to $50k being thrown around and my current company received enough credits that i didn't need to pay for service for over a year.

nyrina 12y ago

Just be careful down the line. Those costs you are talking about are still there, they are only delayed because of BizSpark. Having BizSpark did wonders to the company I'm in, but when the 3 years ended, there was a lot of hard work and even more tears because of it. BizSpark's entire reason for existence is to lock you into Microsoft products, especially their SQL server.

ryanjshaw 12y ago
What were the problems you encountered? As a potential BizSpark user my impression was that: - after 3 years I get to keep using the licenses I acquired, leaving only hosting costs to be concerned about - if I don't have enough capital/revenue to cover my hosting costs at that point it's highly likely my business is not worthwhile pursuing further anyway - for my particular solution I don't envision needing much server power (and what's provided is pretty powerful) so additional licensing costs are not a problem (I can see this being an issue for other businesses)
- scoj 12y ago
  You're right on. I am using Bizspark. The software you get is free to keep. When you start out it feels like hosting costs are expensive. But if you are making money (and money is the validator in my opinion) then it becomes negligible. I thought about learning a new language when I started, but figured the time would be better spent learning the language/skills of sales and marketing. (My day job at a small profitable startup and my side SaaS product are both .net
- avenger123 12y ago
  The problem is that there is always going to be a new Windows Server release, plus a new SQL Server release. Even if you keep your licenses, are you going to stay on that version for the lifespan of the system? Likely not. Then you start to pay. For the database, the OS plus SQL Server Standard is still going to be around $15K (this was around 4-5 years ago when I was involved with this). Now this is just one instance. Multiple that by multiple servers and instances and you will reach upwards of 6 figures for your costs. I guess the numbers work out differently for cloud but I don't imagine they would be that far off. For example, if my Azure costs are $10K a month, from that cost is likely $2K-$3K the Microsoft tax. Keep scaling your VMs and servers and that margin starts to look a bit less palatable. If you know the limits of your business, then it's probably not an issue. I think the sweet spot would be to use Postgresql for the database and Microsoft for the rest, as most of the cost is SQL Server for systems that aren't in the full Microsoft eco-system (BizTalk, SharePoint,etc.)
  - ktavera 12y ago
    Licensing costs are not really an issue when you're on Azure. If your app ran fine under the BizSpark program subsidy of $150/month of azure credit then when you're out of the program you'd just have to pick up the $150/month hosting cost, not suddenly have to pay $15k+ for a MSSQL or Windows Server license.
    - avenger123 12y ago
      I know that. I didn't make it explicit in my comment. The Microsoft tax I mentioned with Azure is the licensing costs. Microsoft isn't just going to give out SQL Server for free and just charge for the VMs and bandwidth. There is premium pricing for SQL Server and BizTalk and custom licensing pricing for SharePoint and Oracle software. Being on Azure doesn't mean you get a break on the licensing costs. They just amortize the cost over the hour the VM is up. EDIT: Fair point on the hosting cost being known and acceptable right from the start. I also don't mean to imply that you are not aware of the licensing costs, just wanted to make it clear. For real businesses, at some point it makes more sense to build their own "private cloud" and at this point these issues become relevant but for most start-ups, it's likely just not going to be an issue.
- NicoJuicy 12y ago
  If you are an MSDN subscriber, you also get discounts on the Azure cloud for testing and dev porposes http://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/member-offers/msdn-benefits-details/ http://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/member-offers/msdn-... TLDR? 33% on VM's, 25% on cloud and then according your MSDN subscription 40 - 115 €/ month.

adrr 12y ago

I used bizspark at my last job but didn't use Azure. We were on AWS, and it applied just fine to EC2 instances running Windows Server(you don't pay the additional costs for ms licensing). Only thing it didn't work on was the MSSQL RDS instances we had, we ended up running our own Mssql server. One thing to note, you can also get credits from AWS if you're a startup. I've seen $25k to $50k being thrown around and my current company received enough credits that i didn't need to pay for service for over a year.