4 ms·

My parents taught me to not disclose the amount of money I make, and to not trust people who do -- they have every incentive to lie, be it due to ego or simply

My parents taught me to not disclose the amount of money I make, and to not trust people who do -- they have every incentive to lie, be it due to ego or simply a desire to leverage an appearance of success into actual (but usually much diminished) success. A 'professional blogger' is blogging about how to make money blogging. What does that tell you? It tells me that what makes this blogger his money (however much he actually makes) is leveraging page views from individuals who want to know how to make money blogging. Thus, the blogger has every incentive to inflate the numbers, or simply lie outright about the expected return. Unsurprisingly, he sells a "31-days to build a better blog" ebook here: http://www.problogger.net/31dbbb-workbook/ http://www.problogger.net/31dbbb-workbook/

JacobAldridge 17y ago
My parents taught me to learn from other people's experiences - it's a lot more scalable than only learning from my own. But absolutely read everything with a skeptical eye. People lie, people are mistaken, and every one of us is unique so what works for others won't necessarily work for you.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
greyman 17y ago
Hi You might be somehow right in general sense, but this particular critique is uninformed. Darren is a well-known and successful blogger, and he also runs other blogs like Digital Photography School or Twitip. I think the reason he discloses the amount of money he makes is because it is relevant to do in Problogger. In his other blogs he doesn't do that.
- antonovka 17y ago
  http://www.twitip.com/the-proper-way-to-pitch-on-twitter/ http://www.twitip.com/the-proper-way-to-pitch-on-twitter/ "I don’t want to make 4,000 [dollars] per month with Twitter (I do this fine on my own thank you)" These sorts of hucksters survive by selling you on an ideal that you reinforce by buying into it. Like any multi-level marketing scheme, you are the target market, not consumers.
  - paulshort 17y ago
    Hucksters? Cocky, maybe. But huckster? No. Darren Rowse is one of the most successful bloggers out there when it comes to monetizing his sites and he discloses the details of how and why he earns money on his problogger.net site. In addition to several of his own successful blogs, he's also one of the co-founders of b5media which has gotten (approximately) 8 million in funding since it's launch in 2005. Darren's expertise in blogging and their monetization was a crucial factor in getting that funding. This reply will probably be downmodded but I don't really care about that. Before shoving him into the 'huckster' category, do a little more open-minded research next time. By the way, that huckster is also the minister of a small youth oriented church in his city. Apologies for seeming harsh, but your comment was blatent and unfair.
    - antonovka 17y ago
      In addition to several of his own successful blogs, he's also one of the co-founders of b5media which has gotten (approximately) 8 million in funding since it's launch in 2005. Darren's expertise in blogging and their monetization was a crucial factor in getting that funding. Funding is not a direct indicator of anything but the funding party's evaluation of perceived or likely value -- just like any testament to Darren Rowse and his success. By the way, that huckster is also the minister of a small youth oriented church in his city. I was speaking generally, but regardless, I'm not sure what that has to do with being (or not being) a huckster.
    - ProBlogger 17y ago
      I should clarify - that I don't work as a minister any more. I did that for 10 years but transitioned out of it a couple of years back. Of course that doesn't really prove anything - I'm not one to claim that all ministers are above doing dodgy stuff but I wanted to clarify that. Thanks for the encouragement though.
    - pyre 17y ago
      > By the way, that huckster is also the minister of a small youth oriented church in his city. At this point in your argument you've driven entirely off course and closing in resorting to personal attacks instead arguing the point on merits. The BTK Killer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader) was also a 'family man' and 'community leader.' Being a minister does nothing to disprove one of being a huckster. Just look at all of the priests accused of child molestation/rape. I know my examples are fairly extreme, but the world comes in shades of grey. It's possible to be a minister, community leader and huckster all at the same time. You can't use one of those roles as evidence to disprove the existence of another.
run4yourlives 17y ago
My parents taught me to not disclose the amount of money I make, Yet we spend hours bickering over the perceived value of facebook and twitter and how if we follow their examples, we too can have success. That's why this industry exploded the first time - real value is only measured in real dollars. A 'professional blogger' is blogging about how to make money blogging. What does that tell you? What it tells me is that he's been able to monetize something that seems unmonitizable, and that regardless of how much he makes, he probably has a lot of insights regarding the motivation of his customers, and their behaviour. In fact, he probably has better insights into what works and what doesn't that most VC's. Thus, the blogger has every incentive to inflate the numbers, or simply lie outright about the expected return. He has bigger incentive to describe methods that work for others, actually. As with any business, creating value for the customer is the main driver. This guy has been around for a while, and I'd like to think that's because some or all of the things he's done are working for others as well, and his reputation has grown because of that.
- antonovka 17y ago
  This guy has been around for a while ... This business strategy has been around a long time. Here are some other large modern examples: Amway was founded in 1959. [The FTC ordered] Amway to stop retail price fixing and allocating customers among distributors and prohibited the company from misrepresenting the amount of profit, earnings or sales its distributors are likely to achieve with the business. Amway was ordered to accompany any such statements with the actual averages per distributor, pointing out that more than half of the distributors do not make any money, with the average distributor making less than $100 per month. The order was violated with a 1986 ad campaign, resulting in a $100,000 fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway#FTC_Investigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway#FTC_Investigation Herbalife was founded in 1980. A 2004 settlement resolved a class action suit on behalf of 8700 former and current distributors that accused the company and distributors of "essentially running a pyramid scheme." A total of $6 million was to be paid out, with defendants not admitting guilt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbalife#Controversies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbalife#Controversies
  - 17y ago
vijayr 17y ago
http://www.johnchow.com/ http://www.johnchow.com/ That is the most annoying blog I've come across, in the 'internet marketing' niche. Problogger on the other hand, seems trustworthy, of course its good to be skeptical with such posts.
- knightinblue 17y ago
  Annoying is putting it mildly. Downright useless is the way I'd describe it. Virtually every single post is a 'paid review' where, in return for $500, John will shill anything you want him to. Literally. There is no screening process whatsoever. You pay him to talk about flaming dogpoop and as long as your money gets deposited, he will talk about it. He has basically made it clear that his only goal is to drive readers to subscribe to his newsletter (so that if they stop coming to his blog, he can still chase after them in their inboxes) and through the newsletter, get them to sign up for some of the most useless crap under the sun and collect commissions. Darren Rowse aka Problogger on the other hand, seems to genuinely want to offer info that can help ppl generate money online. What sets him apart from the rest of the 'me-too' probloggers is his standards. He rarely has any aff links in his posts and when he does, it's usually for something that he's personally used and wants to recommend.
- nebula 17y ago
  Linking to such a thing is a bad idea: i) people can accidentally click on it ii) you might be contributing to its Page Rank iii) The fact that it's linked from HN, gives it certain credibility. can you please consider making it text, instead of hrefed?
ProBlogger 17y ago
Hi there - I actually welcome your skepticism on this one - there's a lot of people claiming a lot of things online these days. The reason I actually revealed the amount I've made with Amazon in this post was simply that I constantly get people telling me that Amazon is impossible to make good money with because it's just lots of tiny tiny commissions (ie 5% of a book sale isn't much). In terms of what makes me my money - if you read the article you see that I'm linking to my photography blog. That is my main blog (in terms of both traffic and earnings). I do make some from ProBlogger but it's small in comparison with the photography one. Yep I sell an ebook from my site - it's done ok but it's not my main income source by any means. In terms of inflating the amount - not quite sure how to 'prove it' - I don't like to post screenshots of earnings pages because people tend to say they are photoshopped - but if you know anyone in Melbourne Australia and want to set up a meeting I'm more than happy to show them my reports live and have them verify them for you. I'd also say that if I was going to inflate the numbers I'd probably go a little further than I did - $119k in 6 years isn't really the most amazing claim of making money online that I've heard :-) It's more than pocket change but it's small time in comparison to many. Again - happy for people to be skeptical - I actively encourage people to be in this game, there's a lot of big claims, hype and empty promises going around. I myself pride myself on not promising big easy money - in fact I've written many times on how hard it is to make this kind of money, I've worked my butt off for 7 years building my blogs up - it certainly doesn't happen over night. Happy to chat with anyone who wants to raise concerns over my approach and shed as much light as I can on the topic.
- Mz 17y ago
  Not that it's any of my business, but I've found that putting too much effort into rebutting naysayers tends to just make me come across as combative and hurts my credibility. I address them at times, but I try to keep it to a minimum. Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts (or links to anything already on your site that might be relevant) on trying to monetize a site that's primarily a grass roots movement and which is targeted at an audience somewhat predisposed to say "If you are trying to make money off me, you are a snake oil salesman and can't be trusted!" I've made it clear to people that I have no plans to cut my own throat for their benefit and this (and other stuff) has helped some with public relations. I know I still have major issues in terms of not yet having a steady pace of updates. But even if I did, I know of sites with tons of traffic that aren't well monetized. I want to avoid that fate. I know a few webmasters who are rather bitter about the time and effort they have put into a "labor of love" and the lack of money and lack of (official) recognition it has gotten them. Anyway, sorry if this is kind of rambling. Thanks in advance if you bother to reply at all. :-)

JacobAldridge 17y ago

My parents taught me to learn from other people's experiences - it's a lot more scalable than only learning from my own. But absolutely read everything with a skeptical eye. People lie, people are mistaken, and every one of us is unique so what works for others won't necessarily work for you.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

greyman 17y ago

Hi You might be somehow right in general sense, but this particular critique is uninformed. Darren is a well-known and successful blogger, and he also runs other blogs like Digital Photography School or Twitip. I think the reason he discloses the amount of money he makes is because it is relevant to do in Problogger. In his other blogs he doesn't do that.

antonovka 17y ago
http://www.twitip.com/the-proper-way-to-pitch-on-twitter/ http://www.twitip.com/the-proper-way-to-pitch-on-twitter/ "I don’t want to make 4,000 [dollars] per month with Twitter (I do this fine on my own thank you)" These sorts of hucksters survive by selling you on an ideal that you reinforce by buying into it. Like any multi-level marketing scheme, you are the target market, not consumers.
- paulshort 17y ago
  Hucksters? Cocky, maybe. But huckster? No. Darren Rowse is one of the most successful bloggers out there when it comes to monetizing his sites and he discloses the details of how and why he earns money on his problogger.net site. In addition to several of his own successful blogs, he's also one of the co-founders of b5media which has gotten (approximately) 8 million in funding since it's launch in 2005. Darren's expertise in blogging and their monetization was a crucial factor in getting that funding. This reply will probably be downmodded but I don't really care about that. Before shoving him into the 'huckster' category, do a little more open-minded research next time. By the way, that huckster is also the minister of a small youth oriented church in his city. Apologies for seeming harsh, but your comment was blatent and unfair.
  - antonovka 17y ago
    In addition to several of his own successful blogs, he's also one of the co-founders of b5media which has gotten (approximately) 8 million in funding since it's launch in 2005. Darren's expertise in blogging and their monetization was a crucial factor in getting that funding. Funding is not a direct indicator of anything but the funding party's evaluation of perceived or likely value -- just like any testament to Darren Rowse and his success. By the way, that huckster is also the minister of a small youth oriented church in his city. I was speaking generally, but regardless, I'm not sure what that has to do with being (or not being) a huckster.
  - ProBlogger 17y ago
    I should clarify - that I don't work as a minister any more. I did that for 10 years but transitioned out of it a couple of years back. Of course that doesn't really prove anything - I'm not one to claim that all ministers are above doing dodgy stuff but I wanted to clarify that. Thanks for the encouragement though.
  - pyre 17y ago
    > By the way, that huckster is also the minister of a small youth oriented church in his city. At this point in your argument you've driven entirely off course and closing in resorting to personal attacks instead arguing the point on merits. The BTK Killer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader) was also a 'family man' and 'community leader.' Being a minister does nothing to disprove one of being a huckster. Just look at all of the priests accused of child molestation/rape. I know my examples are fairly extreme, but the world comes in shades of grey. It's possible to be a minister, community leader and huckster all at the same time. You can't use one of those roles as evidence to disprove the existence of another.

run4yourlives 17y ago

My parents taught me to not disclose the amount of money I make, Yet we spend hours bickering over the perceived value of facebook and twitter and how if we follow their examples, we too can have success. That's why this industry exploded the first time - real value is only measured in real dollars. A 'professional blogger' is blogging about how to make money blogging. What does that tell you? What it tells me is that he's been able to monetize something that seems unmonitizable, and that regardless of how much he makes, he probably has a lot of insights regarding the motivation of his customers, and their behaviour. In fact, he probably has better insights into what works and what doesn't that most VC's. Thus, the blogger has every incentive to inflate the numbers, or simply lie outright about the expected return. He has bigger incentive to describe methods that work for others, actually. As with any business, creating value for the customer is the main driver. This guy has been around for a while, and I'd like to think that's because some or all of the things he's done are working for others as well, and his reputation has grown because of that.

antonovka 17y ago
This guy has been around for a while ... This business strategy has been around a long time. Here are some other large modern examples: Amway was founded in 1959. [The FTC ordered] Amway to stop retail price fixing and allocating customers among distributors and prohibited the company from misrepresenting the amount of profit, earnings or sales its distributors are likely to achieve with the business. Amway was ordered to accompany any such statements with the actual averages per distributor, pointing out that more than half of the distributors do not make any money, with the average distributor making less than $100 per month. The order was violated with a 1986 ad campaign, resulting in a $100,000 fine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway#FTC_Investigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway#FTC_Investigation Herbalife was founded in 1980. A 2004 settlement resolved a class action suit on behalf of 8700 former and current distributors that accused the company and distributors of "essentially running a pyramid scheme." A total of $6 million was to be paid out, with defendants not admitting guilt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbalife#Controversies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbalife#Controversies
- 17y ago

vijayr 17y ago

http://www.johnchow.com/ http://www.johnchow.com/ That is the most annoying blog I've come across, in the 'internet marketing' niche. Problogger on the other hand, seems trustworthy, of course its good to be skeptical with such posts.

knightinblue 17y ago
Annoying is putting it mildly. Downright useless is the way I'd describe it. Virtually every single post is a 'paid review' where, in return for $500, John will shill anything you want him to. Literally. There is no screening process whatsoever. You pay him to talk about flaming dogpoop and as long as your money gets deposited, he will talk about it. He has basically made it clear that his only goal is to drive readers to subscribe to his newsletter (so that if they stop coming to his blog, he can still chase after them in their inboxes) and through the newsletter, get them to sign up for some of the most useless crap under the sun and collect commissions. Darren Rowse aka Problogger on the other hand, seems to genuinely want to offer info that can help ppl generate money online. What sets him apart from the rest of the 'me-too' probloggers is his standards. He rarely has any aff links in his posts and when he does, it's usually for something that he's personally used and wants to recommend.
nebula 17y ago
Linking to such a thing is a bad idea: i) people can accidentally click on it ii) you might be contributing to its Page Rank iii) The fact that it's linked from HN, gives it certain credibility. can you please consider making it text, instead of hrefed?

ProBlogger 17y ago

Hi there - I actually welcome your skepticism on this one - there's a lot of people claiming a lot of things online these days. The reason I actually revealed the amount I've made with Amazon in this post was simply that I constantly get people telling me that Amazon is impossible to make good money with because it's just lots of tiny tiny commissions (ie 5% of a book sale isn't much). In terms of what makes me my money - if you read the article you see that I'm linking to my photography blog. That is my main blog (in terms of both traffic and earnings). I do make some from ProBlogger but it's small in comparison with the photography one. Yep I sell an ebook from my site - it's done ok but it's not my main income source by any means. In terms of inflating the amount - not quite sure how to 'prove it' - I don't like to post screenshots of earnings pages because people tend to say they are photoshopped - but if you know anyone in Melbourne Australia and want to set up a meeting I'm more than happy to show them my reports live and have them verify them for you. I'd also say that if I was going to inflate the numbers I'd probably go a little further than I did - $119k in 6 years isn't really the most amazing claim of making money online that I've heard :-) It's more than pocket change but it's small time in comparison to many. Again - happy for people to be skeptical - I actively encourage people to be in this game, there's a lot of big claims, hype and empty promises going around. I myself pride myself on not promising big easy money - in fact I've written many times on how hard it is to make this kind of money, I've worked my butt off for 7 years building my blogs up - it certainly doesn't happen over night. Happy to chat with anyone who wants to raise concerns over my approach and shed as much light as I can on the topic.

Mz 17y ago
Not that it's any of my business, but I've found that putting too much effort into rebutting naysayers tends to just make me come across as combative and hurts my credibility. I address them at times, but I try to keep it to a minimum. Anyway, would love to hear your thoughts (or links to anything already on your site that might be relevant) on trying to monetize a site that's primarily a grass roots movement and which is targeted at an audience somewhat predisposed to say "If you are trying to make money off me, you are a snake oil salesman and can't be trusted!" I've made it clear to people that I have no plans to cut my own throat for their benefit and this (and other stuff) has helped some with public relations. I know I still have major issues in terms of not yet having a steady pace of updates. But even if I did, I know of sites with tons of traffic that aren't well monetized. I want to avoid that fate. I know a few webmasters who are rather bitter about the time and effort they have put into a "labor of love" and the lack of money and lack of (official) recognition it has gotten them. Anyway, sorry if this is kind of rambling. Thanks in advance if you bother to reply at all. :-)