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The OSVDB website contains no signup page for commercial access. No pricing either, purely sign up via contacting someone. From my experience whenever I see thi

by duey 12y ago

The OSVDB website contains no signup page for commercial access. No pricing either, purely sign up via contacting someone. From my experience whenever I see this, I just refuse to use the service and look elsewhere. Contacting someone is annoying and opens you up to repeat sales calls. Perhaps they should make commercial API access easier to access rather than complain about scrapers.

awor 12y ago
Did you read the article? In both cases the offending parties were told to contact RBS to obtain a proper license/account.
- kijin 12y ago
  That's exactly the problem that GP is talking about. McAfee were just being the usual assholes, but the first guy mentioned in the blog post could have been converted into a paying customer if the pricing scheme were clearly outlined on the web. Since "Contact us" account tiers are usually reserved for the very high end, he probably assumed that it would cost him an arm and a leg. It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a handful of moderately priced account tiers, each targeting a different type of customer, as well as an open-ended tier at the end ("Contact us") for those with special needs and deep pockets.
  - brc 12y ago
    So many times I say this to people. Sometimes the reason people aren't buying is because they can't find the price, and aren't willing to pay the mental price of talking to a sales person to find out. I understand the sales psychology in making sure you enter into a proper discussion with people to make sure their needs are right, and extracting the maximum consumer surplus from them. But there is a non-trivial pricing point where this makes sense, and by not having any anonymous-sign up, you're cutting off your sales curve below this point. I think it's very easy to convince yourself it's easier just to sign up customers over the phone, but doing so without at least testing takeup of simpler tiers is an incomplete picture.
    - nemothekid 12y ago
      I get this line of thinking if your you can sell your offering for $100 bucks a month. But what if your minimum offering is $2500/mo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've yet to see a company - that only sales through enterprise - put up a sign saying where their plans start at $2,500. In most cases I don't believe these services are forcing customers to talk on the phone because they think they will convert them. Chances are that sign up isn't as easy as a 1-2-click, and involved set up and understanding of the customers needs is required before services can be rendered.
      - kijin 12y ago
        If your signup process is understandably complicated and you require a minimum commitment of $2500/mo, then it's probably okay for you to tell potential customers to give you a call. If your signup process can be automated and you only charge $25/mo, and you still tell people to give you a call, then you will lose business because 1) the friction of a phone call is worth more than the difference between your offer and a competing offer; 2) it's impossible to tell whether your offer is worth the friction in the first place, because your pricing is unknown; and 3) people just assume that you'll charge $2500/mo because that's the usual price point where people say "contact us". If someone else comes along and offers an inferior product for $35/mo, they'll get all the business because monkey psychology.
      - brc 12y ago
        Yes, that's what I am saying. There is a pricing point at which having a customized sales process absolutely makes sense. What I am saying along with that is that - by doing this - you're ignoring a lot of the market at (or even just below) your price point. That might be OK - as long as it is a conscious decision to do so, including acknowledging that your market is completely above that point. In the case being discussed here, it would seem that there is an interest below this price point.
lukejduncan 12y ago
It's not really reasonable to say "I don't like the way you market your goods... so you really shouldn't be concerned with people stealing them."
- duey 12y ago
  Not in the long term obviously, but you can't make a product extremely difficult to buy and then complain that everyone is taking the easy route.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    Talking to someone on the phone is not "extremely difficult." Large companies buy stuff by talking to people on the phone all the time.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      And it sucks as a method of buying something.
    - thaumasiotes 12y ago
      Perhaps a method used exclusively by very large companies is that way for a reason? Of course purchasing by talking to someone on the phone is extremely difficult. The only reason people sell that way is to make sure they can hassle you as much as possible during the sale.
    - the_ancient 12y ago
      and I have a policy that if the company does not practice open pricing by publishing their prices online I will not do business with them.. Fuck that non-sense of pricing based on what ever they think they can scam me out of
      - danielweber 12y ago
        That's fine. 'patio11 has lots of stories about that. However, the lack of up-front pricing data isn't being used to justify "I won't do business with you." It's justifying "I'm going to take all your stuff anyway."

by duey 12y ago

awor 12y ago

Did you read the article? In both cases the offending parties were told to contact RBS to obtain a proper license/account.

kijin 12y ago
That's exactly the problem that GP is talking about. McAfee were just being the usual assholes, but the first guy mentioned in the blog post could have been converted into a paying customer if the pricing scheme were clearly outlined on the web. Since "Contact us" account tiers are usually reserved for the very high end, he probably assumed that it would cost him an arm and a leg. It shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a handful of moderately priced account tiers, each targeting a different type of customer, as well as an open-ended tier at the end ("Contact us") for those with special needs and deep pockets.
- brc 12y ago
  So many times I say this to people. Sometimes the reason people aren't buying is because they can't find the price, and aren't willing to pay the mental price of talking to a sales person to find out. I understand the sales psychology in making sure you enter into a proper discussion with people to make sure their needs are right, and extracting the maximum consumer surplus from them. But there is a non-trivial pricing point where this makes sense, and by not having any anonymous-sign up, you're cutting off your sales curve below this point. I think it's very easy to convince yourself it's easier just to sign up customers over the phone, but doing so without at least testing takeup of simpler tiers is an incomplete picture.
  - nemothekid 12y ago
    I get this line of thinking if your you can sell your offering for $100 bucks a month. But what if your minimum offering is $2500/mo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've yet to see a company - that only sales through enterprise - put up a sign saying where their plans start at $2,500. In most cases I don't believe these services are forcing customers to talk on the phone because they think they will convert them. Chances are that sign up isn't as easy as a 1-2-click, and involved set up and understanding of the customers needs is required before services can be rendered.
    - kijin 12y ago
      If your signup process is understandably complicated and you require a minimum commitment of $2500/mo, then it's probably okay for you to tell potential customers to give you a call. If your signup process can be automated and you only charge $25/mo, and you still tell people to give you a call, then you will lose business because 1) the friction of a phone call is worth more than the difference between your offer and a competing offer; 2) it's impossible to tell whether your offer is worth the friction in the first place, because your pricing is unknown; and 3) people just assume that you'll charge $2500/mo because that's the usual price point where people say "contact us". If someone else comes along and offers an inferior product for $35/mo, they'll get all the business because monkey psychology.
    - brc 12y ago
      Yes, that's what I am saying. There is a pricing point at which having a customized sales process absolutely makes sense. What I am saying along with that is that - by doing this - you're ignoring a lot of the market at (or even just below) your price point. That might be OK - as long as it is a conscious decision to do so, including acknowledging that your market is completely above that point. In the case being discussed here, it would seem that there is an interest below this price point.

lukejduncan 12y ago

It's not really reasonable to say "I don't like the way you market your goods... so you really shouldn't be concerned with people stealing them."

duey 12y ago
Not in the long term obviously, but you can't make a product extremely difficult to buy and then complain that everyone is taking the easy route.
- danielweber 12y ago
  Talking to someone on the phone is not "extremely difficult." Large companies buy stuff by talking to people on the phone all the time.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    And it sucks as a method of buying something.
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    Perhaps a method used exclusively by very large companies is that way for a reason? Of course purchasing by talking to someone on the phone is extremely difficult. The only reason people sell that way is to make sure they can hassle you as much as possible during the sale.
  - the_ancient 12y ago
    and I have a policy that if the company does not practice open pricing by publishing their prices online I will not do business with them.. Fuck that non-sense of pricing based on what ever they think they can scam me out of
    - danielweber 12y ago
      That's fine. 'patio11 has lots of stories about that. However, the lack of up-front pricing data isn't being used to justify "I won't do business with you." It's justifying "I'm going to take all your stuff anyway."