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Tesla is just like any other startup, the fact they made a loss is irrelevant because the overall vision is much bigger and eventually Tesla will be at the fore

Tesla is just like any other startup, the fact they made a loss is irrelevant because the overall vision is much bigger and eventually Tesla will be at the forefront of electric vehicles, a household name like Ford or General Motors. The fact they've made leaps and bounds in battery tech and the drivetrain component puts Tesla at the forefront (not to mention shaking up how cars are sold), the losses can be written off as collateral damage. You have to spend money to make money and Tesla are arguably competing in an industry that even almost killed the players that were there from the beginning. Starting out in any kind of industry that relies on manufacturing and continual research is going to very expensive, but the good thing is your costs are destined to continually come down. Until they can drive down their production costs and adoption increases, I have a feeling we'll see many more quarterly losses before they start to become profitable. I think the future of Tesla's revenue model will be split 50/50 between sales and licensing. The deal Tesla signed with Toyota in 2010 to develop an electric Rav4 was just the beginning. The technology and advancements Tesla have made put them in a fantastic position to licence it out to other car companies as more and more of them move into the electric car market, they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. I'm excited to hopefully own a Tesla vehicle one day, in Australia it's not really a viable option to own one just yet (that I am aware of anyway), but I know that will change soon enough. Don't be concerned with the loss, there are lot of companies out there not turning a profit just like Tesla.

hnnewguy 12y ago
>they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. What specific technologies or patents do they own that will cause other companies to "crawl" to them? Sure, they're leading the way right now, but competition is heating up. Almost every major player in the market has developed or is developing EV technologies. Are we that enamoured with the aura of Elon Musk that we really believe the major automobile manufacturers, with their hundreds of billions of dollars and reams of engineering experience, won't be able to match or surpass what Tesla is doing? That's a bold bet. The automobile world is an incredibly competitive space. Look how much competition is in every single market segment.
- Musketeer 12y ago
  Yea, but, Elon Musk runs a "start up" (apparently Tesla is now a start up) and start ups are changing the world man. Revolutionary brah. Hurr durr. (obligatory "This isn't Reddit" in 3)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - arcticfox 12y ago
    Off topic - does the quantity matter to these disclaimers? I feel they unintentionally come off as a humblebrag sometimes.
  - angersock 12y ago
    I mean this in the friendliest way possible, but are you really sure you want to admit to over $2M in assets with your contact information right there?
- DigitalSea 12y ago
  A quick search yields a lot of patents that Tesla Motors own which you can view here: http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ They've got some patents on some pretty key pieces of functionality and technology which they'll be licencing out no doubt in the future when other car makers come to the table. This is what I meant about 50% of Tesla's future revenue possibly coming from licencing out their technology. The crucial part of an electric vehicle is the batteries and if you look through the list of patents which Tesla Motors is the assignee, they've got tonnes of patents on functionality based around the batteries; temperature sensors, voltage sensors, connectors, pressure sensors and smart charging tech, battery shields and more. Sure, not all patents they've filed are in use, but it does show Tesla are at the forefront of electric vehicle tech. Think for a moment in 2009 General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz told The New Yorker "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us – and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." I think this one quote sums up what Musk and the countless others who work at Tesla Motors have done, they spurned a revolution. Yes, some people get caught up in the "aura of Elon Musk" but you've got to understand the bigger picture here, it's bigger than Musk, Tesla Motors are revolutionising the electric car industry which was basically non-existent before they came onto the scene. Nobody wanted to take on the risk of investing hundreds of millions of dollars into something that people might not want. The Global Financial Crisis most likely was a deterring factor for some companies considering the thought of entering the electric vehicle car space.
JetSpiegel 12y ago
And this kids is how you make a economic bubble. $36M in the hole? Forget about that, they will be making (potentially) infinite millions in undisclosed amount of time, just you wait! And I say this as a fan of their work. I though Musk was a millionaire, why isn't he bankrolling this with his own money?
- mbesto 12y ago
  > $36M in the hole? Can we get over this whole financial armchair meme of what a business "loss" is? Most businesses need debt to grow. Q2-2012 - Facebook's EBITDA was -616M (that's minus) && Net Income was -157M Q4-2013 - Facebook's EBITDA was 1.4B (that's B for billions) && Net Income was 523M Sources - http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Facebook_(FB)/Data/EBITDA http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Facebook_(FB)/Data/EBITDA http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=695976 http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=695976 http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=821954 http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=821954
  - duaneb 12y ago
    Well it's still unclear Facebook is a good business, they're hardly a good example. I, for one, think it's hilarious how much money goes into the social black hole with minimal appreciable return. But hey, that black hole also pays my bills!
    - mbesto 12y ago
      What's your definition of a "good business"?
      - duaneb 12y ago
        One with a sustainable profit—Facebook is driven by forces too volatile to actually determine its long-term stability.
- azundo 12y ago
  He did: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/sorkin-elon-musk-of-paypal-and-tesla-fame-is-broke/ http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/sorkin-elon-musk-of-p...
catshirt 12y ago
"the fact they made a loss is irrelevant" i don't mean to nitpick but i'm pretty sure "irrelevant" is not the word you are looking for. even if it was projected with complete accuracy, it is very relevant.

hnnewguy 12y ago

>they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. What specific technologies or patents do they own that will cause other companies to "crawl" to them? Sure, they're leading the way right now, but competition is heating up. Almost every major player in the market has developed or is developing EV technologies. Are we that enamoured with the aura of Elon Musk that we really believe the major automobile manufacturers, with their hundreds of billions of dollars and reams of engineering experience, won't be able to match or surpass what Tesla is doing? That's a bold bet. The automobile world is an incredibly competitive space. Look how much competition is in every single market segment.

Musketeer 12y ago
Yea, but, Elon Musk runs a "start up" (apparently Tesla is now a start up) and start ups are changing the world man. Revolutionary brah. Hurr durr. (obligatory "This isn't Reddit" in 3)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- arcticfox 12y ago
  Off topic - does the quantity matter to these disclaimers? I feel they unintentionally come off as a humblebrag sometimes.
- angersock 12y ago
  I mean this in the friendliest way possible, but are you really sure you want to admit to over $2M in assets with your contact information right there?
DigitalSea 12y ago
A quick search yields a lot of patents that Tesla Motors own which you can view here: http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ They've got some patents on some pretty key pieces of functionality and technology which they'll be licencing out no doubt in the future when other car makers come to the table. This is what I meant about 50% of Tesla's future revenue possibly coming from licencing out their technology. The crucial part of an electric vehicle is the batteries and if you look through the list of patents which Tesla Motors is the assignee, they've got tonnes of patents on functionality based around the batteries; temperature sensors, voltage sensors, connectors, pressure sensors and smart charging tech, battery shields and more. Sure, not all patents they've filed are in use, but it does show Tesla are at the forefront of electric vehicle tech. Think for a moment in 2009 General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz told The New Yorker "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us – and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." I think this one quote sums up what Musk and the countless others who work at Tesla Motors have done, they spurned a revolution. Yes, some people get caught up in the "aura of Elon Musk" but you've got to understand the bigger picture here, it's bigger than Musk, Tesla Motors are revolutionising the electric car industry which was basically non-existent before they came onto the scene. Nobody wanted to take on the risk of investing hundreds of millions of dollars into something that people might not want. The Global Financial Crisis most likely was a deterring factor for some companies considering the thought of entering the electric vehicle car space.

JetSpiegel 12y ago

And this kids is how you make a economic bubble. $36M in the hole? Forget about that, they will be making (potentially) infinite millions in undisclosed amount of time, just you wait! And I say this as a fan of their work. I though Musk was a millionaire, why isn't he bankrolling this with his own money?

mbesto 12y ago
> $36M in the hole? Can we get over this whole financial armchair meme of what a business "loss" is? Most businesses need debt to grow. Q2-2012 - Facebook's EBITDA was -616M (that's minus) && Net Income was -157M Q4-2013 - Facebook's EBITDA was 1.4B (that's B for billions) && Net Income was 523M Sources - http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Facebook_(FB)/Data/EBITDA http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Facebook_(FB)/Data/EBITDA http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=695976 http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=695976 http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=821954 http://investor.fb.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=821954
- duaneb 12y ago
  Well it's still unclear Facebook is a good business, they're hardly a good example. I, for one, think it's hilarious how much money goes into the social black hole with minimal appreciable return. But hey, that black hole also pays my bills!
  - mbesto 12y ago
    What's your definition of a "good business"?
    - duaneb 12y ago
      One with a sustainable profit—Facebook is driven by forces too volatile to actually determine its long-term stability.
azundo 12y ago
He did: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/sorkin-elon-musk-of-paypal-and-tesla-fame-is-broke/ http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/sorkin-elon-musk-of-p...

catshirt 12y ago

"the fact they made a loss is irrelevant" i don't mean to nitpick but i'm pretty sure "irrelevant" is not the word you are looking for. even if it was projected with complete accuracy, it is very relevant.