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Tesla reports net loss of $50 million in Q1 [video]

47 points by selmnoo 12y ago

fersho311 12y ago
I fail to see a reason why this article is on the front page. Tesla Q1 report does not disclose any new information that we didn't already know: Planning of a Gigafactory, battery supply constraints, rapid movement into China, etc.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
DigitalSea 12y ago
Tesla is just like any other startup, the fact they made a loss is irrelevant because the overall vision is much bigger and eventually Tesla will be at the forefront of electric vehicles, a household name like Ford or General Motors. The fact they've made leaps and bounds in battery tech and the drivetrain component puts Tesla at the forefront (not to mention shaking up how cars are sold), the losses can be written off as collateral damage. You have to spend money to make money and Tesla are arguably competing in an industry that even almost killed the players that were there from the beginning. Starting out in any kind of industry that relies on manufacturing and continual research is going to very expensive, but the good thing is your costs are destined to continually come down. Until they can drive down their production costs and adoption increases, I have a feeling we'll see many more quarterly losses before they start to become profitable. I think the future of Tesla's revenue model will be split 50/50 between sales and licensing. The deal Tesla signed with Toyota in 2010 to develop an electric Rav4 was just the beginning. The technology and advancements Tesla have made put them in a fantastic position to licence it out to other car companies as more and more of them move into the electric car market, they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. I'm excited to hopefully own a Tesla vehicle one day, in Australia it's not really a viable option to own one just yet (that I am aware of anyway), but I know that will change soon enough. Don't be concerned with the loss, there are lot of companies out there not turning a profit just like Tesla.
- hnnewguy 12y ago
  >they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. What specific technologies or patents do they own that will cause other companies to "crawl" to them? Sure, they're leading the way right now, but competition is heating up. Almost every major player in the market has developed or is developing EV technologies. Are we that enamoured with the aura of Elon Musk that we really believe the major automobile manufacturers, with their hundreds of billions of dollars and reams of engineering experience, won't be able to match or surpass what Tesla is doing? That's a bold bet. The automobile world is an incredibly competitive space. Look how much competition is in every single market segment.
  - Musketeer 12y ago
    Yea, but, Elon Musk runs a "start up" (apparently Tesla is now a start up) and start ups are changing the world man. Revolutionary brah. Hurr durr. (obligatory "This isn't Reddit" in 3)
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - arcticfox 12y ago
      Off topic - does the quantity matter to these disclaimers? I feel they unintentionally come off as a humblebrag sometimes.
    - angersock 12y ago
      I mean this in the friendliest way possible, but are you really sure you want to admit to over $2M in assets with your contact information right there?
  - DigitalSea 12y ago
    A quick search yields a lot of patents that Tesla Motors own which you can view here: http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ They've got some patents on some pretty key pieces of functionality and technology which they'll be licencing out no doubt in the future when other car makers come to the table. This is what I meant about 50% of Tesla's future revenue possibly coming from licencing out their technology. The crucial part of an electric vehicle is the batteries and if you look through the list of patents which Tesla Motors is the assignee, they've got tonnes of patents on functionality based around the batteries; temperature sensors, voltage sensors, connectors, pressure sensors and smart charging tech, battery shields and more. Sure, not all patents they've filed are in use, but it does show Tesla are at the forefront of electric vehicle tech. Think for a moment in 2009 General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz told The New Yorker "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us – and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." I think this one quote sums up what Musk and the countless others who work at Tesla Motors have done, they spurned a revolution. Yes, some people get caught up in the "aura of Elon Musk" but you've got to understand the bigger picture here, it's bigger than Musk, Tesla Motors are revolutionising the electric car industry which was basically non-existent before they came onto the scene. Nobody wanted to take on the risk of investing hundreds of millions of dollars into something that people might not want. The Global Financial Crisis most likely was a deterring factor for some companies considering the thought of entering the electric vehicle car space.
urbangangster 12y ago
Tesla <3
roymurdock 12y ago
The fact that they had a net loss of $50m is pretty remarkable, given their steep, uphill battle against the deeply entrenched auto industry [1], the costs of scaling up production [2], and the large expenses of building a suitable infrastructure in multiple massive markets for vehicle charging [3]. I would've expected a much higher loss as they continue to plow money in development. It seems like people often tend to ignore the fact that Tesla makes really solid cars [4]. Is the stock market overreacting? Good time to buy? [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/how-tesla-got-outspent-and-outgunned-in-jersey-2014-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-tesla-got-outspent-and-ou... [2] http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/26/business/la-fi-tesla-battery-factory-20140227 http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/26/business/la-fi-tesla... [3] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/22/us-autoshow-china-tesla-motors-idUSBREA3L0TN20140422 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/22/us-autoshow-china-... [4] http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-...
- hnnewguy 12y ago
  >It seems like people often tend to ignore the fact that Tesla makes really solid cars Most Tesla fans tend to ignore the fact that building a solid car doesn't mean the company should be valued at a bajillion dollars. Stern's Prof. Damodaran (of online valuation course fame) believes "the value per share estimate... [of] Tesla is between $110 and $115 per share." He might not be right, but at least his model is based on real-world projections and shows the magnitude of optimism/hype behind Tesla's share price. There's a lot of talk about about Tesla being a startup or a tech company. In reality, they're a car company (albeit one that's doing a few things better/differently), and need to be looked at in that context.
  - marvin 12y ago
    Plenty of DCF models predict a Tesla share price which is higher than today's closing price. The problem is that they necessarily must rely to a heavy degree on assumptions about the future. Given that any realistic DCF model of Tesla needs to be probabilistic to some degree (measure different scenarios against each other) and that a company's true market value is still the unknown present-value adjusted sum of all its future earnings, we are still going to see massive disagreement about Tesla's correct valuation in the years ahead. Contemptuous comments about bajillion-dollar valuations and hype don't provide any value to this discussion. If you're arguing from authority, it's also worth pointing out that Damodaran was uncertain about his valuation in the comment thread after his latest valuation of Tesla.
jqm 12y ago
I like everything about Tesla. Except they don't make an auto that is affordable for most people. Hopefully their battles eventually produce this, whether it is them that brings it to market or someone else.
- grecy 12y ago
  It's been their plan all along to make cars that are more and more affordable.
  - johnny5 12y ago
    Indeed, and the next one has gullwing doors, following in the footsteps of esteemed car makers DMC and Bricklin.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
n0rm 12y ago
Tesla also said that using non-GAAP information that excludes some items... it earned $17 million, Which means the article is like a proof-piece on how unreliable these financial analyses are. They got 12 cents when analysts expected 6. That is a %50 error.

47 points by selmnoo 12y ago

I fail to see a reason why this article is on the front page. Tesla Q1 report does not disclose any new information that we didn't already know: Planning of a Gigafactory, battery supply constraints, rapid movement into China, etc.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

DigitalSea 12y ago

Tesla is just like any other startup, the fact they made a loss is irrelevant because the overall vision is much bigger and eventually Tesla will be at the forefront of electric vehicles, a household name like Ford or General Motors. The fact they've made leaps and bounds in battery tech and the drivetrain component puts Tesla at the forefront (not to mention shaking up how cars are sold), the losses can be written off as collateral damage. You have to spend money to make money and Tesla are arguably competing in an industry that even almost killed the players that were there from the beginning. Starting out in any kind of industry that relies on manufacturing and continual research is going to very expensive, but the good thing is your costs are destined to continually come down. Until they can drive down their production costs and adoption increases, I have a feeling we'll see many more quarterly losses before they start to become profitable. I think the future of Tesla's revenue model will be split 50/50 between sales and licensing. The deal Tesla signed with Toyota in 2010 to develop an electric Rav4 was just the beginning. The technology and advancements Tesla have made put them in a fantastic position to licence it out to other car companies as more and more of them move into the electric car market, they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. I'm excited to hopefully own a Tesla vehicle one day, in Australia it's not really a viable option to own one just yet (that I am aware of anyway), but I know that will change soon enough. Don't be concerned with the loss, there are lot of companies out there not turning a profit just like Tesla.

hnnewguy 12y ago
>they'll most likely come crawling to Tesla. What specific technologies or patents do they own that will cause other companies to "crawl" to them? Sure, they're leading the way right now, but competition is heating up. Almost every major player in the market has developed or is developing EV technologies. Are we that enamoured with the aura of Elon Musk that we really believe the major automobile manufacturers, with their hundreds of billions of dollars and reams of engineering experience, won't be able to match or surpass what Tesla is doing? That's a bold bet. The automobile world is an incredibly competitive space. Look how much competition is in every single market segment.
- Musketeer 12y ago
  Yea, but, Elon Musk runs a "start up" (apparently Tesla is now a start up) and start ups are changing the world man. Revolutionary brah. Hurr durr. (obligatory "This isn't Reddit" in 3)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - arcticfox 12y ago
    Off topic - does the quantity matter to these disclaimers? I feel they unintentionally come off as a humblebrag sometimes.
  - angersock 12y ago
    I mean this in the friendliest way possible, but are you really sure you want to admit to over $2M in assets with your contact information right there?
- DigitalSea 12y ago
  A quick search yields a lot of patents that Tesla Motors own which you can view here: http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/tesla-motors-inc/ They've got some patents on some pretty key pieces of functionality and technology which they'll be licencing out no doubt in the future when other car makers come to the table. This is what I meant about 50% of Tesla's future revenue possibly coming from licencing out their technology. The crucial part of an electric vehicle is the batteries and if you look through the list of patents which Tesla Motors is the assignee, they've got tonnes of patents on functionality based around the batteries; temperature sensors, voltage sensors, connectors, pressure sensors and smart charging tech, battery shields and more. Sure, not all patents they've filed are in use, but it does show Tesla are at the forefront of electric vehicle tech. Think for a moment in 2009 General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz told The New Yorker "All the geniuses here at General Motors kept saying lithium-ion technology is 10 years away, and Toyota agreed with us – and boom, along comes Tesla. So I said, 'How come some tiny little California startup, run by guys who know nothing about the car business, can do this, and we can't?' That was the crowbar that helped break up the log jam." I think this one quote sums up what Musk and the countless others who work at Tesla Motors have done, they spurned a revolution. Yes, some people get caught up in the "aura of Elon Musk" but you've got to understand the bigger picture here, it's bigger than Musk, Tesla Motors are revolutionising the electric car industry which was basically non-existent before they came onto the scene. Nobody wanted to take on the risk of investing hundreds of millions of dollars into something that people might not want. The Global Financial Crisis most likely was a deterring factor for some companies considering the thought of entering the electric vehicle car space.

urbangangster 12y ago

Tesla <3

roymurdock 12y ago

The fact that they had a net loss of $50m is pretty remarkable, given their steep, uphill battle against the deeply entrenched auto industry [1], the costs of scaling up production [2], and the large expenses of building a suitable infrastructure in multiple massive markets for vehicle charging [3]. I would've expected a much higher loss as they continue to plow money in development. It seems like people often tend to ignore the fact that Tesla makes really solid cars [4]. Is the stock market overreacting? Good time to buy? [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/how-tesla-got-outspent-and-outgunned-in-jersey-2014-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-tesla-got-outspent-and-ou... [2] http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/26/business/la-fi-tesla-battery-factory-20140227 http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/26/business/la-fi-tesla... [3] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/22/us-autoshow-china-tesla-motors-idUSBREA3L0TN20140422 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/22/us-autoshow-china-... [4] http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safety-rating-any-car-ever-tested http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-...

hnnewguy 12y ago
>It seems like people often tend to ignore the fact that Tesla makes really solid cars Most Tesla fans tend to ignore the fact that building a solid car doesn't mean the company should be valued at a bajillion dollars. Stern's Prof. Damodaran (of online valuation course fame) believes "the value per share estimate... [of] Tesla is between $110 and $115 per share." He might not be right, but at least his model is based on real-world projections and shows the magnitude of optimism/hype behind Tesla's share price. There's a lot of talk about about Tesla being a startup or a tech company. In reality, they're a car company (albeit one that's doing a few things better/differently), and need to be looked at in that context.
- marvin 12y ago
  Plenty of DCF models predict a Tesla share price which is higher than today's closing price. The problem is that they necessarily must rely to a heavy degree on assumptions about the future. Given that any realistic DCF model of Tesla needs to be probabilistic to some degree (measure different scenarios against each other) and that a company's true market value is still the unknown present-value adjusted sum of all its future earnings, we are still going to see massive disagreement about Tesla's correct valuation in the years ahead. Contemptuous comments about bajillion-dollar valuations and hype don't provide any value to this discussion. If you're arguing from authority, it's also worth pointing out that Damodaran was uncertain about his valuation in the comment thread after his latest valuation of Tesla.

jqm 12y ago

I like everything about Tesla. Except they don't make an auto that is affordable for most people. Hopefully their battles eventually produce this, whether it is them that brings it to market or someone else.

grecy 12y ago
It's been their plan all along to make cars that are more and more affordable.
- johnny5 12y ago
  Indeed, and the next one has gullwing doors, following in the footsteps of esteemed car makers DMC and Bricklin.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

n0rm 12y ago

Tesla also said that using non-GAAP information that excludes some items... it earned $17 million, Which means the article is like a proof-piece on how unreliable these financial analyses are. They got 12 cents when analysts expected 6. That is a %50 error.