3 ms·

In the current H1B system, it doesn't matter if the applicant is from an elite US university. If you have to work in the US, and if you are not a permanent resi

by shas3 12y ago

In the current H1B system, it doesn't matter if the applicant is from an elite US university. If you have to work in the US, and if you are not a permanent resident or US citizen, you go through, for the most part, the exact same H1B system as everyone else. The only difference is, if you have a masters or higher degree, your H1B visa processing is done through a separate quota. In today's system, unless you are a PhD with many publications in prestigious conferences/journals, etc., straight out of college (i.e., BS or MS), permanent residency is a long and highly bureaucratic process for most applicants. So essentially, your spouse cannot work till you get a green card. Here is an interesting story about an early Google employee highlighting this problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/business/12immig.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/business/12immig.html?page... Also, in 2014, people are not as desperate to live and work in the US as you think, to arrange marriages for this sole purpose. Further, this rule-change applies to that subset of H1B workers who are on track to get green cards. Employment-based green cards could take even 10 years to be processed because of purely administrative and bureaucratic delays. Besides, the H1B workers affected by this rule are usually highly skilled and are likely to have similar quality of life if they lived and worked in their home country. When you take this into account, the loophole-theory that you talk about jumps into the realm of paranoid conspiracy theory. (IANAL)

lmg643 12y ago
I like the early Google employee example - of course, let's cherry pick the best-of-the-best, and just assume everyone in the sample is of that caliber. I am fine with citizenship or automatic green cards for accepted Harvard students. That's a pretty prestigious designation and very hard to obtain. Harvard does not give out slots lightly. However, there are a lot of degree granting institutions in the US with lower standards, such that I don't think all universities should have that privilege. I have worked with dozens of H1B employees. It's really stupid to ask - since they are here working - but it occasionally is discussed whether they would consider going home. I think the answer is usually - maybe - when I'm ready to retire. The opportunities here are still "on average" better - and it's not just "the economy" - infrastructure, rule of law, space-to-people ratio, etc.
- shas3 12y ago
  Your accusation of cherry-picking is disingenuous. It is just this: in the current system, there is no way of rewarding merit. That NY Times example is one data point. A second one is this, from Newsweek: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:88OoGNMeneUJ:www.newsweek.com/story-one-mans-immigration-ordeal-66537+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:88OoGN... . The USCIS has decided that one measure of the 'worthiness' or 'best-of-the-best'ness is workers who are valuable enough for a company to be applying for the green-card on their behalf. The best-of-the-best, the talented workers (whether they are from Harvard or No-name Indian Engineering Institute- is immaterial) are put in the same pile as the 'mass-H1Bs'. This is a problem that is inherent to complex irrational bureaucracies like the American immigration system. I don't see how you can classify people based on which university they go to. A person may be talented in spite of the university they go to, and this is a question that a company or a VC has to answer. So what if H1B workers intend on staying in the US? It is the individual's choice. If you want to go deeper into the question of 'who deserves H1Bs', you need to answer question scuh as, what is the purpose of nationality? Why is an American citizen more eligible to work in the US, than say, a Chinese or an Indian citizen? Is there something superior about 'American'ness? Is it because the domicile's parents and grandparents paid taxes? But what makes the domicile entitled to the fruits of the labors of their parents and grandparents? And so on.
  - lmg643 12y ago
    It's quite appropriate that this is a discussion at the bottom of the page. I appreciate gems like "why are Americans more eligible to work in their own country," and "what makes the domicile entitled to the fruits of the labors of their parents". Funny thing is, to the average person these days, I sound like the extremist. To use your example, would be an interesting example to contrast China and India attitudes towards parents/children to the way you think Americans should act and think.
  - immigrantsonge 12y ago
    I believe the US should have a much simpler immigration system: - allow for employer-sponsored visas like the H-1B, but beyond sponsoring make the whole deal strictly about the US government and the individual. - after 4 years of full-time employment history, the person should be eligible for a green card, irrespectively of their origin, occupation etc.
ifonlynoelse 12y ago
This. I am from India. Graduated with degree in engineering from one of the top universities. Worked in US for last 4 years of so. Now enrolled for one of the top MBA program but I am thinking of leaving US after MBA rather than applying for green card. There is so much wait for people from India. Agreed that number of applicants are very large but then 10 years is way too much to be tied to one employer. Time value of money surpasses benefit that would green card/citizenship benefit after 10 yrs. Also, not to forget in recent years there are increasing number of problems happening in US in every aspect, high tax rates, so it may or may not worth the deal. Again this is my opinion only.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by shas3 12y ago

lmg643 12y ago

I like the early Google employee example - of course, let's cherry pick the best-of-the-best, and just assume everyone in the sample is of that caliber. I am fine with citizenship or automatic green cards for accepted Harvard students. That's a pretty prestigious designation and very hard to obtain. Harvard does not give out slots lightly. However, there are a lot of degree granting institutions in the US with lower standards, such that I don't think all universities should have that privilege. I have worked with dozens of H1B employees. It's really stupid to ask - since they are here working - but it occasionally is discussed whether they would consider going home. I think the answer is usually - maybe - when I'm ready to retire. The opportunities here are still "on average" better - and it's not just "the economy" - infrastructure, rule of law, space-to-people ratio, etc.

shas3 12y ago
Your accusation of cherry-picking is disingenuous. It is just this: in the current system, there is no way of rewarding merit. That NY Times example is one data point. A second one is this, from Newsweek: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:88OoGNMeneUJ:www.newsweek.com/story-one-mans-immigration-ordeal-66537+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:88OoGN... . The USCIS has decided that one measure of the 'worthiness' or 'best-of-the-best'ness is workers who are valuable enough for a company to be applying for the green-card on their behalf. The best-of-the-best, the talented workers (whether they are from Harvard or No-name Indian Engineering Institute- is immaterial) are put in the same pile as the 'mass-H1Bs'. This is a problem that is inherent to complex irrational bureaucracies like the American immigration system. I don't see how you can classify people based on which university they go to. A person may be talented in spite of the university they go to, and this is a question that a company or a VC has to answer. So what if H1B workers intend on staying in the US? It is the individual's choice. If you want to go deeper into the question of 'who deserves H1Bs', you need to answer question scuh as, what is the purpose of nationality? Why is an American citizen more eligible to work in the US, than say, a Chinese or an Indian citizen? Is there something superior about 'American'ness? Is it because the domicile's parents and grandparents paid taxes? But what makes the domicile entitled to the fruits of the labors of their parents and grandparents? And so on.
- lmg643 12y ago
  It's quite appropriate that this is a discussion at the bottom of the page. I appreciate gems like "why are Americans more eligible to work in their own country," and "what makes the domicile entitled to the fruits of the labors of their parents". Funny thing is, to the average person these days, I sound like the extremist. To use your example, would be an interesting example to contrast China and India attitudes towards parents/children to the way you think Americans should act and think.
- immigrantsonge 12y ago
  I believe the US should have a much simpler immigration system: - allow for employer-sponsored visas like the H-1B, but beyond sponsoring make the whole deal strictly about the US government and the individual. - after 4 years of full-time employment history, the person should be eligible for a green card, irrespectively of their origin, occupation etc.

ifonlynoelse 12y ago

This. I am from India. Graduated with degree in engineering from one of the top universities. Worked in US for last 4 years of so. Now enrolled for one of the top MBA program but I am thinking of leaving US after MBA rather than applying for green card. There is so much wait for people from India. Agreed that number of applicants are very large but then 10 years is way too much to be tied to one employer. Time value of money surpasses benefit that would green card/citizenship benefit after 10 yrs. Also, not to forget in recent years there are increasing number of problems happening in US in every aspect, high tax rates, so it may or may not worth the deal. Again this is my opinion only.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]