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For anyone wondering, this is basically how PR works at its absolute best. This piece has been published because Alibaba is about to IPO and Amazon wants to t

by dotBen 12y ago

For anyone wondering, this is basically how PR works at its absolute best. This piece has been published because Alibaba is about to IPO and Amazon wants to take a little bit of wind out of the sails by puffing (as its called in the trade) its own otherwise obscure competitor. Note how the journalist writes how AmazonSupply has never been mentioned before outside of the 2012 General Meeting - the hook to make you think this is some inside track he/she has just discovered - and then out come the canned quotes from an array of AmazonSupply VPs because, actually, this isn't some scoop s/he discovered, its been spoon fed to her/him. This was designed and crafted by Amazons PR firm, probably pitched to a freelance journalist who in turn pitched it to some outlets and Forbes bit. The date of publishing would have been agreed way in advance and Amazon PR may even have had rights to review/edit the piece. Its a manipulation of media in some ways given the piece has only been crated for the sole interest of Amazon (there's no objective analysis or mention of competitors) and the rest of us are pawns reading it.

josefresco 12y ago
I enjoyed your story and generally believe Bezos and Amazon to be very shrewd marketers and PR manipulators BUT ... do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
- hagbardgroup 12y ago
  That's the beauty of manipulating the press. All the evidence is private. Your skepticism is what makes it such an effective method of molding public opinion.
  - lifeofanalysis 12y ago
    Thanks for putting it so well. It is mental jujutsu. You leverage your opponent's strength against herself.
- tlarkworthy 12y ago
  I think the timing is pretty strong evidence
- bgilroy26 12y ago
  >You can get industrial motors, flanges, valves, fasteners, materials, janitorial supplies This is a precise definition of Alibaba's market segment. Alibaba connects factories directly to businesses. I don't know a ton about the company, my introduction was a story from maybe 2011 about a kid from Michigan who made a million dollars selling iPod minis to his classmates until Apple shut him down Edit: I couldn't find the link, this is the closest thing I could find http://www.startupbros.com/how-you-can-make-big-money-importing-from-china-the-rise-and-fall-of-my-empire/ http://www.startupbros.com/how-you-can-make-big-money-import...
  - jonknee 12y ago
    Alibaba does a lot more than B2B. They do regular ecommerce sales like Amazon, run a financial service (you deposit money and earn interest, quite respectable interest too) and a lot more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibaba_Group#Companies_and_affiliated_entities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibaba_Group#Companies_and_aff...
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- libria 12y ago
  WRT josefresco's request for evidence, could we not discourage these requests by downvoting? I keep seeing this lately, and I don't think he could have phrased it more politely. Whether the data (or lack of it) strengthens or weakens the argument, any challenge improves the quality of discussion, especially polite ones.
- mratzloff 12y ago
  His track record. Bezos did the same thing the night before Cyber Monday last year with his drone story in order to capture the news cycle for the day and get in front of consumers.
krschultz 12y ago
Does the PR firm get bonus points for re-plugging the ridiculous Amazon delivery drone PR move from cyber monday?
smackay 12y ago
Required reading: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
contingencies 12y ago
Right. Alibaba and Taobao are perhaps the biggest competitors to Amazon's physical goods fulfilment lines. They still have problems getting meaningfully out of China, though. It's a fascinating area, and there's still huge room in specialist verticals, though. Perhaps five years ago, I interviewed at a London-based company doing over a billion dollars a year in trade just in the global shipping parts supply area. Holistically, SilkRoad is another example of a vertical-specific offering, albeit unconventional. Earlier this week HN featured a job from a startup apparently focused solely on inbound US customs-clearance for importers. There's clearly huge money in this area, and lots of challenges. Cross closer to the manufacturing side, and people have been slowly hyping up something called JIT or just in time manufacturing... the idea of highly dynamic sourcing from a highly available network of partners. Reputation systems and legal considerations obviously weigh-in big here, and the promise has yet to be realized. The 3D printing world and its resulting prototyping machinery has also been accelerating in this area. It seems to me that what is truly needed here is not a new centralized platform (oh, so dotcom-era!) but a generalized, extensible language for describing RFQs and quotations with the capacity to add detailed information regarding logistics (shipping, warehousing, customs clearance, legals), financial and physical settlement routes, and reputations (not just happily settled n previous transactions, but definitely supplied n units/period from prior fulfilments). I believe that every wholesale business of non-trivial size will some day have open source platforms providing this kind of business intelligence, risk management and operational support (sort of like SAP on steroids), and that global financial, regulatory and supply-chain systems will become more open and decentralized in tandem with these changes. I have a no-time-to-progress-of-late, but braindump-level-documented approach to this problem space over at http://ifex-project.org/ http://ifex-project.org/ which grew from the disparate operational requirements of dealing with cryptographic and conventional currencies/settlement routes at http://kraken.com/ http://kraken.com/
InclinedPlane 12y ago
The sad thing is that this is the general state of the media these days, and has been for a long time. The old standard is a media of middle men, a media of folks who know the J-school way to translate just-in-time learning into carefully formatted and worded stories that would fit the form and flow of newspapers and be easily digested by their readers. But, to be frank, that's a lazy job, and a poor one too. And, as demonstrated here, is easily manipulated because the so-called journalists are typically salivating for "access" and not well versed in the subject matter they allegedly cover, so they can be baited with carefully crafted PR pieces.
- mpclark 12y ago
  The problem is that's it's worth about what we pay for it...
  - InclinedPlane 12y ago
    That's a problem largely because the transition is a difficult one. The problem is that fundamentally the vast majority of folks who did journalism in the pre-internet era are not suitable for doing journalism in the internet era. That has nothing to do with tech savvy and everything to do with subject expertise, something that journalists have for the most part eschewed. One consequence of that is that a lot of modern journalism is pretty interchangeable. Thus not very valuable in the internet age. Thus not very valued. That doesn't mean all journalism must be that way though, or that people are universally unwilling to pay for good journalism. However, it does mean that in the majority of instances there's no easy transition from where they are now to a state of journalistic practice that is sufficiently valuable and sufficiently valued enough to be self-sustaining in the internet world. We'll likely have a period where a lot of old forms of journalism are dying or dwindling without replacement before new forms come around.
panarky 12y ago
You're right, the article reads like a PR plant. However, the author doesn't seem to be a shill for PR flacks in her other stories[1]: - a relentless stream of articles on appalling behavior of apparel manufacturers exploiting workers in Bangladesh - retailers putting religion at the center of their brand image - the struggle for a living wage by fast-food workers - the launch of Walmart's money transfer service, along with stories about Walmart exploiting workers and taxpayers [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/
- eco 12y ago
  Putting on my tinfoil hat it seems like almost all of her recent articles cast negative light on existing large retailers. You'll get shot going to Starbucks and Jack in the Box. J.C. Penny still hasn't forked over money for the victims of the Bangladesh factory collapse (and neither has Walmart but they don't use that factory so that's a weird thing to mention). You're exploiting fast-food workers by eating there. Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A are controlled by religious nutjobs. None of these are a problem if you shop at home from, say, Amazon.com.
- raverbashing 12y ago
  Yes, this sounds like "Freelance Journalist"
troymc 12y ago
The article does have analysis of competitors, including W.W. Grainger and Cardinal Health. Did you read it?
2000 12y ago
Funny you say that. I thought the writing of this article was far too good for Forbes, which is a shifty piece of trash.

by dotBen 12y ago

josefresco 12y ago

I enjoyed your story and generally believe Bezos and Amazon to be very shrewd marketers and PR manipulators BUT ... do you have any evidence to back up your claims?

hagbardgroup 12y ago
That's the beauty of manipulating the press. All the evidence is private. Your skepticism is what makes it such an effective method of molding public opinion.
- lifeofanalysis 12y ago
  Thanks for putting it so well. It is mental jujutsu. You leverage your opponent's strength against herself.
tlarkworthy 12y ago
I think the timing is pretty strong evidence
bgilroy26 12y ago
>You can get industrial motors, flanges, valves, fasteners, materials, janitorial supplies This is a precise definition of Alibaba's market segment. Alibaba connects factories directly to businesses. I don't know a ton about the company, my introduction was a story from maybe 2011 about a kid from Michigan who made a million dollars selling iPod minis to his classmates until Apple shut him down Edit: I couldn't find the link, this is the closest thing I could find http://www.startupbros.com/how-you-can-make-big-money-importing-from-china-the-rise-and-fall-of-my-empire/ http://www.startupbros.com/how-you-can-make-big-money-import...
- jonknee 12y ago
  Alibaba does a lot more than B2B. They do regular ecommerce sales like Amazon, run a financial service (you deposit money and earn interest, quite respectable interest too) and a lot more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibaba_Group#Companies_and_affiliated_entities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibaba_Group#Companies_and_aff...
sillysaurus3 12y ago
http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
libria 12y ago
WRT josefresco's request for evidence, could we not discourage these requests by downvoting? I keep seeing this lately, and I don't think he could have phrased it more politely. Whether the data (or lack of it) strengthens or weakens the argument, any challenge improves the quality of discussion, especially polite ones.
mratzloff 12y ago
His track record. Bezos did the same thing the night before Cyber Monday last year with his drone story in order to capture the news cycle for the day and get in front of consumers.

krschultz 12y ago

Does the PR firm get bonus points for re-plugging the ridiculous Amazon delivery drone PR move from cyber monday?

smackay 12y ago

Required reading: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

contingencies 12y ago

Right. Alibaba and Taobao are perhaps the biggest competitors to Amazon's physical goods fulfilment lines. They still have problems getting meaningfully out of China, though. It's a fascinating area, and there's still huge room in specialist verticals, though. Perhaps five years ago, I interviewed at a London-based company doing over a billion dollars a year in trade just in the global shipping parts supply area. Holistically, SilkRoad is another example of a vertical-specific offering, albeit unconventional. Earlier this week HN featured a job from a startup apparently focused solely on inbound US customs-clearance for importers. There's clearly huge money in this area, and lots of challenges. Cross closer to the manufacturing side, and people have been slowly hyping up something called JIT or just in time manufacturing... the idea of highly dynamic sourcing from a highly available network of partners. Reputation systems and legal considerations obviously weigh-in big here, and the promise has yet to be realized. The 3D printing world and its resulting prototyping machinery has also been accelerating in this area. It seems to me that what is truly needed here is not a new centralized platform (oh, so dotcom-era!) but a generalized, extensible language for describing RFQs and quotations with the capacity to add detailed information regarding logistics (shipping, warehousing, customs clearance, legals), financial and physical settlement routes, and reputations (not just happily settled n previous transactions, but definitely supplied n units/period from prior fulfilments). I believe that every wholesale business of non-trivial size will some day have open source platforms providing this kind of business intelligence, risk management and operational support (sort of like SAP on steroids), and that global financial, regulatory and supply-chain systems will become more open and decentralized in tandem with these changes. I have a no-time-to-progress-of-late, but braindump-level-documented approach to this problem space over at http://ifex-project.org/ http://ifex-project.org/ which grew from the disparate operational requirements of dealing with cryptographic and conventional currencies/settlement routes at http://kraken.com/ http://kraken.com/

InclinedPlane 12y ago

The sad thing is that this is the general state of the media these days, and has been for a long time. The old standard is a media of middle men, a media of folks who know the J-school way to translate just-in-time learning into carefully formatted and worded stories that would fit the form and flow of newspapers and be easily digested by their readers. But, to be frank, that's a lazy job, and a poor one too. And, as demonstrated here, is easily manipulated because the so-called journalists are typically salivating for "access" and not well versed in the subject matter they allegedly cover, so they can be baited with carefully crafted PR pieces.

mpclark 12y ago
The problem is that's it's worth about what we pay for it...
- InclinedPlane 12y ago
  That's a problem largely because the transition is a difficult one. The problem is that fundamentally the vast majority of folks who did journalism in the pre-internet era are not suitable for doing journalism in the internet era. That has nothing to do with tech savvy and everything to do with subject expertise, something that journalists have for the most part eschewed. One consequence of that is that a lot of modern journalism is pretty interchangeable. Thus not very valuable in the internet age. Thus not very valued. That doesn't mean all journalism must be that way though, or that people are universally unwilling to pay for good journalism. However, it does mean that in the majority of instances there's no easy transition from where they are now to a state of journalistic practice that is sufficiently valuable and sufficiently valued enough to be self-sustaining in the internet world. We'll likely have a period where a lot of old forms of journalism are dying or dwindling without replacement before new forms come around.

panarky 12y ago

You're right, the article reads like a PR plant. However, the author doesn't seem to be a shill for PR flacks in her other stories[1]: - a relentless stream of articles on appalling behavior of apparel manufacturers exploiting workers in Bangladesh - retailers putting religion at the center of their brand image - the struggle for a living wage by fast-food workers - the launch of Walmart's money transfer service, along with stories about Walmart exploiting workers and taxpayers [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/

eco 12y ago
Putting on my tinfoil hat it seems like almost all of her recent articles cast negative light on existing large retailers. You'll get shot going to Starbucks and Jack in the Box. J.C. Penny still hasn't forked over money for the victims of the Bangladesh factory collapse (and neither has Walmart but they don't use that factory so that's a weird thing to mention). You're exploiting fast-food workers by eating there. Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A are controlled by religious nutjobs. None of these are a problem if you shop at home from, say, Amazon.com.
raverbashing 12y ago
Yes, this sounds like "Freelance Journalist"

troymc 12y ago

The article does have analysis of competitors, including W.W. Grainger and Cardinal Health. Did you read it?

2000 12y ago

Funny you say that. I thought the writing of this article was far too good for Forbes, which is a shifty piece of trash.