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> Is it? Can it not ever apply beyond that? Did the poet make it clear that it only applies to a single body politic? It can be, of course, but there are polit

> Is it? Can it not ever apply beyond that? Did the poet make it clear that it only applies to a single body politic? It can be, of course, but there are political realities when trying to influence public policy in another country. > Looking at your previous example, I feel that you're confusing a non-profit organization with the US government. Unlike governments, non-profits have no political pull in foreign countries other than to get citizens of those countries motivated to organize their own political blocs. Which the EFF should try to do, to a point. But U.S. citizens getting involved is, quite frankly, political interference. We can write all the rhetoric we want on the internet about how logging internet traffic is stupid, and how Mexico shouldn't do it (of course that's true), but is it going to change policymakers' minds in Mexico? I very much doubt it. And internet-using freedom-loving Mexicans willing to get politically involved probably don't need the U.S. based EFF to tell them about political machinations within Mexico. The U.S. government could use some of its muscle and convince the Mexican government to shelve this proposal, but how well would that go over, when the NSA is selectively logging anything it wants anywhere in the world (anywhere that it can get at and tap)?

chaostheory 12y ago
> It can be, of course, but there are political realities when trying to influence public policy in another country. Yes, but what does that have to do with constricting the meaning of the poem? > Unlike governments, non-profits have no political pull in foreign countries other than to get citizens of those countries motivated to organize their own political blocs. The EFF is all about raising awareness. How does this hurt anyone? Why is it stupid to help raise awareness of an issue in another country?
- harshreality 12y ago
  To rephrase: Acting on the spirit of the poem, and other similar philosophy, without taking heed of certain caveats I elaborated upon, is political foolishness, and perhaps the primary reason enlightened liberals have a lot of trouble getting things done in the world. > Why is it stupid to help raise awareness... Take a look at the only place I used the word "stupid". Hint: it has nothing to do with the EFF. I'm attempting to inject some balance, and some political reality, into what I think is head-in-the-clouds liberalism. I don't know that the EFF is doing anything that hurts people right now; this was but one press release on their website. But anyone, like the poster who started this subthread, who tries to make Mexico's issues the world's issues, has to contend with allocation of limited organization resources (opportunity costs). If organizations in the rest of the world put resources into interfering in Mexico's primarily internal policies, and get nothing out of it, when they could have been fighting policies that more directly affect those organizations' members, is that not harm?
  - chaostheory 12y ago
    > To rephrase: Acting on the spirit of the poem, and other similar philosophy, without taking heed of certain caveats I elaborated upon, is political foolishness How is it foolish when the cost is low and what does this have to do with being a liberal (ftr I am not a liberal)? Of course let's not forget that your original point was that you felt the poem had a very limited scope. > has to contend with allocation of limited organization resources (opportunity costs). Is the cost of writing and posting an article online expensive? What opportunity costs are they missing by writing a single article?

chaostheory 12y ago

> It can be, of course, but there are political realities when trying to influence public policy in another country. Yes, but what does that have to do with constricting the meaning of the poem? > Unlike governments, non-profits have no political pull in foreign countries other than to get citizens of those countries motivated to organize their own political blocs. The EFF is all about raising awareness. How does this hurt anyone? Why is it stupid to help raise awareness of an issue in another country?

harshreality 12y ago
To rephrase: Acting on the spirit of the poem, and other similar philosophy, without taking heed of certain caveats I elaborated upon, is political foolishness, and perhaps the primary reason enlightened liberals have a lot of trouble getting things done in the world. > Why is it stupid to help raise awareness... Take a look at the only place I used the word "stupid". Hint: it has nothing to do with the EFF. I'm attempting to inject some balance, and some political reality, into what I think is head-in-the-clouds liberalism. I don't know that the EFF is doing anything that hurts people right now; this was but one press release on their website. But anyone, like the poster who started this subthread, who tries to make Mexico's issues the world's issues, has to contend with allocation of limited organization resources (opportunity costs). If organizations in the rest of the world put resources into interfering in Mexico's primarily internal policies, and get nothing out of it, when they could have been fighting policies that more directly affect those organizations' members, is that not harm?
- chaostheory 12y ago
  > To rephrase: Acting on the spirit of the poem, and other similar philosophy, without taking heed of certain caveats I elaborated upon, is political foolishness How is it foolish when the cost is low and what does this have to do with being a liberal (ftr I am not a liberal)? Of course let's not forget that your original point was that you felt the poem had a very limited scope. > has to contend with allocation of limited organization resources (opportunity costs). Is the cost of writing and posting an article online expensive? What opportunity costs are they missing by writing a single article?