5 ms·

Can I ask, what is the meaning of the name "oncle tom" to you? Curious why you choose that name.

by joewee 12y ago

kjackson2012 12y ago
I came in to say this. "Oncle Tom" translates to "Uncle Tom" in English, and in the US it has an extremely derogatory meaning towards African Americans. It's essentially a "black man that sold out to the White Man". The name choice probably wasn't motivated by this, but it's an unlucky choice if the goal was to grow in North America, similar to the Chevy Nova, which in Spanish was equivalent to "No Go".
- CanSpice 12y ago
  That coupled with the header graphic on this post (graveyard with what's probably Jesus on a cross but could be misconstrued to be a lynching) gives me all kinds of uncomfortable feelings.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  The startup was "Dijiwan", though.
- Patrick_Devine 12y ago
  It's from a book Uncle Tom's Cabin[1] by Harriet Beecher Stowe who was staunchly antislavery. In Europe it was very popular, and there was even an U-Bahn station in Berlin called "Onkel Tom's Hütte"[2]. Also, the story of the Chevy Nova in Spanish has been debunked many times[3], but for whatever reason it's a nice story and keeps getting retold. I suppose it's like JFK allegedly proclaiming himself a donut, coincidentally also in Berlin. I do agree with you though that it's probably not a great choice for a name, if only because people in the US will be hypersensitive and might completely misconstrue the meaning. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkel_Toms_H%C3%BCtte_%28Berlin_U-Bahn%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkel_Toms_H%C3%BCtte_%28Berlin... [3]: http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp
  - tptacek 12y ago
    The term is very loosely derived from the character from the book. Speaking as an American not given to hypersensitivity on this issue --- my immediate association was with the epithet. If I polled my block, which is majority African American, I'm guessing you'd get the same association from them. If you want to evoke the book in America, you probably use the whole title. Not that there's anything wrong with the name, at least that I see. I'm just affirming the feedback you got previously. This isn't hypersensitivity; it's simply a cultural difference. (PS: we chose the name "Matasano" for our software security firm because we gave up on naming and flipped through a list of cool-sounding plant names; turns out, in South America, a "Matasano" is an incompetent doctor.) The best answer you could have given was, "it's from the name of our favorite Warrant song."
    - Patrick_Devine 12y ago
      I agree. My intention in using the term "hypersensitive" was to mean "very sensitive" and not to conjure up the connotation that someone should not be sensitive about it. Given the history of prejudice and intolerance in the US, there absolutely is reason to be sensitive about it.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        Or, it could also be that Africans make up ~13% of the US population, and as much as 30-35% of the population in urban America, compared to 3% in France and less than 1% in Germany, and so we're just more familiar with African (American) cultural signifiers.
        napoleond 12y ago
        This may be an odd nit to pick, but: "As of 2004, French think-tank Institut Montaigne estimated that there were 51 million (85%) white people or European origin, 6 million (10%) North African people, 2 million (3.5%) Black people and 1 million (1.5%) people of Asian origin in Metropolitan France, including all generations of immigrant descendants." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_groups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_g...] (emphasis mine) So Africans make up 13% of the population in France as well (granting that "North African" does not typically conjure the same image as "African American"). It seems odd to deny that America's history doesn't affect its cultural sensitivity toward certain terms (especially the term in question).
jacquesm 12y ago
Maybe the guys first name is Thomas and he's a proud uncle?
- jessaustin 12y ago
  One of my earliest memories from childhood is of my uncle, Tom, picking me up and strapping me in a carseat. (Considering carseat usage habits in the late 1970s I would have been quite young.) I still thought of the derogatory sense first, when I saw that phrase.
oncletom 12y ago
Well, "Oncle" translates as "Uncle" and Thomas is my first name. It is a French pun I chose 10 years ago; and I definitely not meant to promote slavery or whatsoever. I am more a humanist kind of person. Sadly at the time I missed the point it could eventually be pejorative in North America (and probably elsewhere). Especially as the book is about getting access to freedom through hard work. A beautiful outcome. "Oncle Tom" sounds friendly and familiar in French. You could read it as "Bro Tom", a guy you can speak and what with easily. The header picture is a picture of mine depicting a french fisherman graveyard located in Iceland. While the company was heading to its own graveyard, I was visiting one. This is how to read it. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/the-jedi/8468239532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/the-jedi/8468239532/
- grayclhn 12y ago
  Continuing to use it as a username is going to come across to a lot of people as, at best, deeply insensitive.
  - oncletom 12y ago
    I bet on people intelligence rather than their ignorance. I will eventually have to scale my explanations only if I remain for a too long time on the first page of HN ;-) Actually this is the very first time I hear a comment about being nicknamed "Uncle Tom". So far in Europe it did not even started a single spark of debate. If I appear to become a fashionable talent in North America I might consider changing the username to avoid controversy. At that stage I understand it can offend people. Now is a bit prematured in my opinion. Thanks for raising the issue, I would have not figured that on my own :-)
elwell 12y ago
Well, English is obviously not the author's first language. Most of the sentences had either spelling or grammar mistake.
joewee 12y ago
Well, thanks for all of responses especially from oncletom. I of course know the book but I was curious about the thought process in choosing the name. I didn't want to assume the worst. Unfortunately it won't play well with Americans despite your honest intentions. I would find it hard to introduce you to a contact if you used that domain for email.

Can I ask, what is the meaning of the name "oncle tom" to you? Curious why you choose that name.

by joewee 12y ago

Can I ask, what is the meaning of the name "oncle tom" to you? Curious why you choose that name.

kjackson2012 12y ago

I came in to say this. "Oncle Tom" translates to "Uncle Tom" in English, and in the US it has an extremely derogatory meaning towards African Americans. It's essentially a "black man that sold out to the White Man". The name choice probably wasn't motivated by this, but it's an unlucky choice if the goal was to grow in North America, similar to the Chevy Nova, which in Spanish was equivalent to "No Go".

CanSpice 12y ago
That coupled with the header graphic on this post (graveyard with what's probably Jesus on a cross but could be misconstrued to be a lynching) gives me all kinds of uncomfortable feelings.
pessimizer 12y ago
The startup was "Dijiwan", though.
Patrick_Devine 12y ago
It's from a book Uncle Tom's Cabin[1] by Harriet Beecher Stowe who was staunchly antislavery. In Europe it was very popular, and there was even an U-Bahn station in Berlin called "Onkel Tom's Hütte"[2]. Also, the story of the Chevy Nova in Spanish has been debunked many times[3], but for whatever reason it's a nice story and keeps getting retold. I suppose it's like JFK allegedly proclaiming himself a donut, coincidentally also in Berlin. I do agree with you though that it's probably not a great choice for a name, if only because people in the US will be hypersensitive and might completely misconstrue the meaning. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom%27s_Cabin [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkel_Toms_H%C3%BCtte_%28Berlin_U-Bahn%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkel_Toms_H%C3%BCtte_%28Berlin... [3]: http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp
- tptacek 12y ago
  The term is very loosely derived from the character from the book. Speaking as an American not given to hypersensitivity on this issue --- my immediate association was with the epithet. If I polled my block, which is majority African American, I'm guessing you'd get the same association from them. If you want to evoke the book in America, you probably use the whole title. Not that there's anything wrong with the name, at least that I see. I'm just affirming the feedback you got previously. This isn't hypersensitivity; it's simply a cultural difference. (PS: we chose the name "Matasano" for our software security firm because we gave up on naming and flipped through a list of cool-sounding plant names; turns out, in South America, a "Matasano" is an incompetent doctor.) The best answer you could have given was, "it's from the name of our favorite Warrant song."
  - Patrick_Devine 12y ago
    I agree. My intention in using the term "hypersensitive" was to mean "very sensitive" and not to conjure up the connotation that someone should not be sensitive about it. Given the history of prejudice and intolerance in the US, there absolutely is reason to be sensitive about it.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      Or, it could also be that Africans make up ~13% of the US population, and as much as 30-35% of the population in urban America, compared to 3% in France and less than 1% in Germany, and so we're just more familiar with African (American) cultural signifiers.
      - napoleond 12y ago
        This may be an odd nit to pick, but: "As of 2004, French think-tank Institut Montaigne estimated that there were 51 million (85%) white people or European origin, 6 million (10%) North African people, 2 million (3.5%) Black people and 1 million (1.5%) people of Asian origin in Metropolitan France, including all generations of immigrant descendants." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_groups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_g...] (emphasis mine) So Africans make up 13% of the population in France as well (granting that "North African" does not typically conjure the same image as "African American"). It seems odd to deny that America's history doesn't affect its cultural sensitivity toward certain terms (especially the term in question).

jacquesm 12y ago

Maybe the guys first name is Thomas and he's a proud uncle?

jessaustin 12y ago
One of my earliest memories from childhood is of my uncle, Tom, picking me up and strapping me in a carseat. (Considering carseat usage habits in the late 1970s I would have been quite young.) I still thought of the derogatory sense first, when I saw that phrase.

oncletom 12y ago

Well, "Oncle" translates as "Uncle" and Thomas is my first name. It is a French pun I chose 10 years ago; and I definitely not meant to promote slavery or whatsoever. I am more a humanist kind of person. Sadly at the time I missed the point it could eventually be pejorative in North America (and probably elsewhere). Especially as the book is about getting access to freedom through hard work. A beautiful outcome. "Oncle Tom" sounds friendly and familiar in French. You could read it as "Bro Tom", a guy you can speak and what with easily. The header picture is a picture of mine depicting a french fisherman graveyard located in Iceland. While the company was heading to its own graveyard, I was visiting one. This is how to read it. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/the-jedi/8468239532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/the-jedi/8468239532/

grayclhn 12y ago
Continuing to use it as a username is going to come across to a lot of people as, at best, deeply insensitive.
- oncletom 12y ago
  I bet on people intelligence rather than their ignorance. I will eventually have to scale my explanations only if I remain for a too long time on the first page of HN ;-) Actually this is the very first time I hear a comment about being nicknamed "Uncle Tom". So far in Europe it did not even started a single spark of debate. If I appear to become a fashionable talent in North America I might consider changing the username to avoid controversy. At that stage I understand it can offend people. Now is a bit prematured in my opinion. Thanks for raising the issue, I would have not figured that on my own :-)

elwell 12y ago

Well, English is obviously not the author's first language. Most of the sentences had either spelling or grammar mistake.

joewee 12y ago

Well, thanks for all of responses especially from oncletom. I of course know the book but I was curious about the thought process in choosing the name. I didn't want to assume the worst. Unfortunately it won't play well with Americans despite your honest intentions. I would find it hard to introduce you to a contact if you used that domain for email.