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Decent presentation. Something that would be really helpful for me, as a consumer of these slides, would be to have a better setup between the slides with just

Decent presentation. Something that would be really helpful for me, as a consumer of these slides, would be to have a better setup between the slides with just code. I get the impression that, with some of those slides, you would be saying something while that slide was up. But without your audio, I have no idea what that is and so the slides are confusing at that point. So, if you are giving a presentation that goes best with audio, it'd be awesome to have the audio. If you are giving a presentation with the goal that it can be consumed without the audio, would it be possible to have your speaker notes show up on the slides where you are showing something and talking? All that said... I'm very interested in looking at react.js. I don't know that it would work with the team that I am working with now, mostly because the team that does the front-end work doesn't do JS programming so much as they format HTML and CSS. Does anyone know of something that mixes react.js with templates? Any success/failures in that regard?

Skinney 13y ago
React comes with it's own 'template' library called JSX. It allows you to mix React/JS and html. Example: function render() { return <div>Test</div> }
dustingetz 13y ago
I am the lead guy of a React library: https://github.com/wingspan/wingspan-forms https://github.com/wingspan/wingspan-forms All the design work was done by an actual designer who maintained the JSX directly. He knows enough javascript to get around but basically he just pretended it was HTML. JSX is awesome because it means designers can commit directly without involving engineering.
- ryanjshaw 13y ago
  As a developer I'm interested enough to try React.js on my next project. However, it seems like designers will still need to write Javascript to implement repeating structures (tables, lists, etc.)? Just like designers don't want me fiddling with their HTML and CSS, I don't want them fiddling with my code -- but React.js's model seems to make such a separation of concerns impossible?
  - dustingetz 13y ago
    You can of course continue to have designers handoff markup/CSS for integration by engineering. But if your designer can handle basic javascript, you needn't involve engineering at all. In practice it doesn't really matter if the individual views are sloppy javascript since React separates concerns so well.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- beefman 13y ago
  How does JSX fare by the "don't trade simplicity for familiarity" standard?
  - dustingetz 13y ago
    It's just an alternate syntax, so i consider them equivalently simple
pwr 13y ago
At least for ClojureScript there is https://github.com/ckirkendall/kioo https://github.com/ckirkendall/kioo which is based on https://github.com/cgrand/enlive https://github.com/cgrand/enlive I not sure there is a similar thing for plain React/JS though.
- txmikester 13y ago
  This. Enlive and now Kioo are elegant solutions to the problem of letting designers and programmers work independently. It still amazes me that something like Enlive hasn't popped up in other languages/frameworks.
  - ckirkendall 13y ago
    I have often wondered the same thing. I created enfocus and kioo to solve the exact problem you stated. How do you get designers and programmers work efficiently together? This is particularly difficult with single page applications.
danabramov 13y ago
You don't need to "mix" React with templates because JSX files are very similar to HTML, except for a few gotchas[1]. We have JSX components that look like templates and have little logic, so they are as straightforward to our designer (who only knew HTML) as possible. He tweaks them all the time. For example, it might be a component like `Button`, `FormField` or `UserItem`. We compose those simple elements into more complex JSX files that have more state and logic, like `FeedbackForm`, `UserProfile`, etc. Still, designer can work on them, if he wants to change DOM layout or CSS classes. [1]: http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/jsx-gotchas.html http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/jsx-gotchas.html
- antihero 13y ago
  Yup, in my experience getting designers to work on the JSX has been a far smaller headache than I initially expected.

Skinney 13y ago

React comes with it's own 'template' library called JSX. It allows you to mix React/JS and html. Example: function render() { return <div>Test</div> }

dustingetz 13y ago

I am the lead guy of a React library: https://github.com/wingspan/wingspan-forms https://github.com/wingspan/wingspan-forms All the design work was done by an actual designer who maintained the JSX directly. He knows enough javascript to get around but basically he just pretended it was HTML. JSX is awesome because it means designers can commit directly without involving engineering.

ryanjshaw 13y ago
As a developer I'm interested enough to try React.js on my next project. However, it seems like designers will still need to write Javascript to implement repeating structures (tables, lists, etc.)? Just like designers don't want me fiddling with their HTML and CSS, I don't want them fiddling with my code -- but React.js's model seems to make such a separation of concerns impossible?
- dustingetz 13y ago
  You can of course continue to have designers handoff markup/CSS for integration by engineering. But if your designer can handle basic javascript, you needn't involve engineering at all. In practice it doesn't really matter if the individual views are sloppy javascript since React separates concerns so well.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
beefman 13y ago
How does JSX fare by the "don't trade simplicity for familiarity" standard?
- dustingetz 13y ago
  It's just an alternate syntax, so i consider them equivalently simple

pwr 13y ago

At least for ClojureScript there is https://github.com/ckirkendall/kioo https://github.com/ckirkendall/kioo which is based on https://github.com/cgrand/enlive https://github.com/cgrand/enlive I not sure there is a similar thing for plain React/JS though.

txmikester 13y ago
This. Enlive and now Kioo are elegant solutions to the problem of letting designers and programmers work independently. It still amazes me that something like Enlive hasn't popped up in other languages/frameworks.
- ckirkendall 13y ago
  I have often wondered the same thing. I created enfocus and kioo to solve the exact problem you stated. How do you get designers and programmers work efficiently together? This is particularly difficult with single page applications.

danabramov 13y ago

You don't need to "mix" React with templates because JSX files are very similar to HTML, except for a few gotchas[1]. We have JSX components that look like templates and have little logic, so they are as straightforward to our designer (who only knew HTML) as possible. He tweaks them all the time. For example, it might be a component like `Button`, `FormField` or `UserItem`. We compose those simple elements into more complex JSX files that have more state and logic, like `FeedbackForm`, `UserProfile`, etc. Still, designer can work on them, if he wants to change DOM layout or CSS classes. [1]: http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/jsx-gotchas.html http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/jsx-gotchas.html

antihero 13y ago
Yup, in my experience getting designers to work on the JSX has been a far smaller headache than I initially expected.