12 ms·

The Whore of Mensa

85 points by gnosis 17y ago

adam_feldman 17y ago
context?
- seshagiric 17y ago
  Writers are hackers too. Adding because of the (-)ve votes. What I meant is the play of words is quite close to what I hacker would do with his code. At least I think so.
  - davidw 17y ago
    Yay, everyone's a hacker! Except, they aren't. Writers may be clever people and smart, entertaining, and so on, but there are plenty of them that aren't really hackers by any definition that isn't so broad as to be completely meaningless.
    - bluefish 17y ago
      Have to agree. In general, as much as I like most of these alt stories that have been posted to HN lately, I came to HN to escape this sort of posting. I'm sure we could expand the term 'hacker' to apply to anyone who was a creative misfit in their field; ingenious doctors, writers ahead of their time, one-handed clock makers, etc but that's not what I consider a hacker in the context of this community. Still, would love the alternative with links like this as a companion site to HN.
      - 10ren 17y ago
        I'm not commenting on this specific article, but, to me, the definition of a "hacker" has always been someone who "tinkers", as opposed to a design springing fully formed from the head of Zeus. By this definition, Edison was a hacker, and Tesla was not. Linus is a hacker, but Dijkstra was not. I don't know enough architects to say who was a hacker in that field (maybe Christopher Alexander?), but Frank Lloyd Wright was not (he designed fallingwater in the time it took his client to travel to meet with him, after meditating ahem on it for months). By this definition, for writers, a hacker is someone who fiddles with their writing - as in this morning, I removed a comma from my novel. This afternoon I put it back in. I don't claim it's the definition of hacking, but I think there's some merit in its perspective.
        jacquesm 17y ago
        > but Frank Lloyd Wright was not (he designed fallingwater in the time it took his client to travel to meet with him, after meditating ahem on it for months). Isn't putting stuff off to the very last moment the hall mark of the true hacker ?
    - unalone 17y ago
      Woody Allen is a hacker. Look at his innovations in cinema - Annie Hall was dated by the time I finally saw it but still pulled some awesome quirks. In Without Feathers, from which this story is taken, one of the plays is incredibly recursive and meta. I still want to perform it. That's not defending this story, though. Just expressing a little love for Woody.
      - davidw 17y ago
        Can't someone be smart and innovative without necessarily being a "hacker"?
        unalone 17y ago
        That raises the discussion of what a "hacker" is. I don't like the word hacker myself. I think it's an unnecessary descriptor that raises more irritating arguments than it's worth. In that regards it's similar to calling somebody an "artist", though in the latter case there's slightly more weight behind the word. If we're going to use the word "hacker", though, then having a play that features the cast calling up Woody Allen and asking him what to do next is a hack in that it subverts the format of the play.
  - davidw 17y ago
    (Reminder: I think seshagiric is wrong, as I state below/above, but not wrong in such a way as to merit lots of downvoting. Save that for the egregious abusers/flamers/other nasties)
dylanz 17y ago
That was awesome. I wish I was understood half of those undertones, but the story was fresh and somehow sexy in a bizarre, sociopathic, way. Thank you for sharing that gnosis :)
- jacobolus 17y ago
  It was mostly just name dropping “intellectual” people/books/periodicals for effect... the specific references didn’t really affect the story, or have any particular significance. (Still fun though.)
  - evilneanderthal 17y ago
    I think the point was to be pretentious to the point of irony, which the namedropping achieved.
    - jacobolus 17y ago
      Yes. My point was only that not knowing the names so dropped doesn’t actually diminish the story, because they didn’t really have any deeper significance.
jobenjo 17y ago
Not sure why it's posted here, but this is one of my favorite stories by Woody Allen. In high school, I used it as a Humorous Interp piece for my debate class and ended up winning state. Even with his flops (I couldn't stand Whatever Works) Woody Allen is one of the few artists who's made an incredibly vast series of excellent works and managed to effectively move between different genres without sacrificing his own vision. Can't say that about many people, and it's certainly something I aim for myself.
- dylanz 17y ago
  I didn't even realize this was Woody Allen. Awesome read.
diN0bot 17y ago
two columns of text is the bomb.
- jacobolus 17y ago
  If it all fits on your screen, maybe. Otherwise, having half the visible content completely disconnected from the other half, separated by a few pages of scrolling, is absolutely pointless. But I copy things into http://amarsagoo.info/tofu/ http://amarsagoo.info/tofu/ to read. That is “the bomb.”
  - metachris 17y ago
    Tofu looks nice -- interesting idea to make text more easily readable by splitting it into many columns, each as high as your window is. Someone really needs to make a web version out of that! Shouldn't take too long, and I bet many users don't want to download and install an extra piece of software for that.
    - movix 17y ago
      I hope that 'someone' is the original creator, and not a someone who nabs a really cool idea for themselves. I didn't DL it for exactly the reason you commented on. If it was a web version, I'd use it all the time.
  - boredguy8 17y ago
    Why copy when you can bookmarklet: http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/ http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/
    - jacobolus 17y ago
      Well actually I use an OS X service, so it's just a single keyboard shortcut. But Tofu is much nicer for reading long prose than the Readability bookmarklet. Try it some time.
quizbiz 17y ago
Tripod hosting still exists?
lucumo 17y ago
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the owner of that site doesn't have permission to have that story on his site. Edit/Elaboration: This is pirated content. I don't think pirated content should be spread on a site like HN. It's very similar to blog-jacking, only now the original content is a book. If you want to read it, you can buy it here: http://www.amazon.com/Without-Feathers-Woody-Allen/dp/0345336976/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250587057&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Without-Feathers-Woody-Allen/dp/034533...
- swombat 17y ago
  Assuming that there's more than one story in this book, chances are that those of us who do occasionally buy books are now that much more likely to purchase that book, if we liked this story. The percentage of us who both a) buy books, and b) enjoy reading books on a computer screen, is so vanishingly small that it is unlikely to cause any financial damage to Mr Allen. In any case, Woody Allen is already filthy rich (deservedly), so I doubt he gives a toss.
  - azgolfer 17y ago
    It's up to Mr. Allen to decide if he wants to give away his work for promotion and his wealth doesn't make stealing from him right.
    - swombat 17y ago
      It certainly is, from a legal standpoint. From a moral standpoint, I think the fact that the story was written in 1975, 34 years ago, makes it really a borderline case whether Woody Allen should still have exclusivity over the story he published and profited from for 30+ years. Even going by the 2x14 years principle, he's out. Imho, the world would be a better place if there was a deadline of about 30 years on the exclusivity of reprinting rights.
      - lucumo 17y ago
        The problem with morals is that they are different from person to person. If you want to have a debate on copyright law, I'm perfectly happy to have it, but I don't think anyone should rewrite copyright law based only on their own morals. After all, that's why laws are created, to unify all morals and all interests in a country. In any case, I don't think HN should be a place to swap pirated stories (or movies, music, etc.). Especially not so when they are as terrible and uninteresting as this one.
sielskr 17y ago
Since I like smart women, the story got me a little excited :)
chrischen 17y ago
At first I was like , this looks long, better go watch some tv. But before I knew it I had already finished it 'cause it was so interesting. That was so I intellectually stimulating my mind almost exploded!
blhack 17y ago
The story seems very similar in theme to this one: http://www.viruscomix.com/page473.html http://www.viruscomix.com/page473.html

The Whore of Mensa

85 points by gnosis 17y ago

adam_feldman 17y ago

context?

seshagiric 17y ago
Writers are hackers too. Adding because of the (-)ve votes. What I meant is the play of words is quite close to what I hacker would do with his code. At least I think so.
- davidw 17y ago
  Yay, everyone's a hacker! Except, they aren't. Writers may be clever people and smart, entertaining, and so on, but there are plenty of them that aren't really hackers by any definition that isn't so broad as to be completely meaningless.
  - bluefish 17y ago
    Have to agree. In general, as much as I like most of these alt stories that have been posted to HN lately, I came to HN to escape this sort of posting. I'm sure we could expand the term 'hacker' to apply to anyone who was a creative misfit in their field; ingenious doctors, writers ahead of their time, one-handed clock makers, etc but that's not what I consider a hacker in the context of this community. Still, would love the alternative with links like this as a companion site to HN.
    - 10ren 17y ago
      I'm not commenting on this specific article, but, to me, the definition of a "hacker" has always been someone who "tinkers", as opposed to a design springing fully formed from the head of Zeus. By this definition, Edison was a hacker, and Tesla was not. Linus is a hacker, but Dijkstra was not. I don't know enough architects to say who was a hacker in that field (maybe Christopher Alexander?), but Frank Lloyd Wright was not (he designed fallingwater in the time it took his client to travel to meet with him, after meditating ahem on it for months). By this definition, for writers, a hacker is someone who fiddles with their writing - as in this morning, I removed a comma from my novel. This afternoon I put it back in. I don't claim it's the definition of hacking, but I think there's some merit in its perspective.
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        > but Frank Lloyd Wright was not (he designed fallingwater in the time it took his client to travel to meet with him, after meditating ahem on it for months). Isn't putting stuff off to the very last moment the hall mark of the true hacker ?
  - unalone 17y ago
    Woody Allen is a hacker. Look at his innovations in cinema - Annie Hall was dated by the time I finally saw it but still pulled some awesome quirks. In Without Feathers, from which this story is taken, one of the plays is incredibly recursive and meta. I still want to perform it. That's not defending this story, though. Just expressing a little love for Woody.
    - davidw 17y ago
      Can't someone be smart and innovative without necessarily being a "hacker"?
      - unalone 17y ago
        That raises the discussion of what a "hacker" is. I don't like the word hacker myself. I think it's an unnecessary descriptor that raises more irritating arguments than it's worth. In that regards it's similar to calling somebody an "artist", though in the latter case there's slightly more weight behind the word. If we're going to use the word "hacker", though, then having a play that features the cast calling up Woody Allen and asking him what to do next is a hack in that it subverts the format of the play.
- davidw 17y ago
  (Reminder: I think seshagiric is wrong, as I state below/above, but not wrong in such a way as to merit lots of downvoting. Save that for the egregious abusers/flamers/other nasties)

dylanz 17y ago

That was awesome. I wish I was understood half of those undertones, but the story was fresh and somehow sexy in a bizarre, sociopathic, way. Thank you for sharing that gnosis :)

jacobolus 17y ago
It was mostly just name dropping “intellectual” people/books/periodicals for effect... the specific references didn’t really affect the story, or have any particular significance. (Still fun though.)
- evilneanderthal 17y ago
  I think the point was to be pretentious to the point of irony, which the namedropping achieved.
  - jacobolus 17y ago
    Yes. My point was only that not knowing the names so dropped doesn’t actually diminish the story, because they didn’t really have any deeper significance.

jobenjo 17y ago

Not sure why it's posted here, but this is one of my favorite stories by Woody Allen. In high school, I used it as a Humorous Interp piece for my debate class and ended up winning state. Even with his flops (I couldn't stand Whatever Works) Woody Allen is one of the few artists who's made an incredibly vast series of excellent works and managed to effectively move between different genres without sacrificing his own vision. Can't say that about many people, and it's certainly something I aim for myself.

dylanz 17y ago
I didn't even realize this was Woody Allen. Awesome read.

diN0bot 17y ago

two columns of text is the bomb.

jacobolus 17y ago
If it all fits on your screen, maybe. Otherwise, having half the visible content completely disconnected from the other half, separated by a few pages of scrolling, is absolutely pointless. But I copy things into http://amarsagoo.info/tofu/ http://amarsagoo.info/tofu/ to read. That is “the bomb.”
- metachris 17y ago
  Tofu looks nice -- interesting idea to make text more easily readable by splitting it into many columns, each as high as your window is. Someone really needs to make a web version out of that! Shouldn't take too long, and I bet many users don't want to download and install an extra piece of software for that.
  - movix 17y ago
    I hope that 'someone' is the original creator, and not a someone who nabs a really cool idea for themselves. I didn't DL it for exactly the reason you commented on. If it was a web version, I'd use it all the time.
- boredguy8 17y ago
  Why copy when you can bookmarklet: http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/ http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/
  - jacobolus 17y ago
    Well actually I use an OS X service, so it's just a single keyboard shortcut. But Tofu is much nicer for reading long prose than the Readability bookmarklet. Try it some time.

quizbiz 17y ago

Tripod hosting still exists?

lucumo 17y ago

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the owner of that site doesn't have permission to have that story on his site. Edit/Elaboration: This is pirated content. I don't think pirated content should be spread on a site like HN. It's very similar to blog-jacking, only now the original content is a book. If you want to read it, you can buy it here: http://www.amazon.com/Without-Feathers-Woody-Allen/dp/0345336976/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250587057&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Without-Feathers-Woody-Allen/dp/034533...

swombat 17y ago
Assuming that there's more than one story in this book, chances are that those of us who do occasionally buy books are now that much more likely to purchase that book, if we liked this story. The percentage of us who both a) buy books, and b) enjoy reading books on a computer screen, is so vanishingly small that it is unlikely to cause any financial damage to Mr Allen. In any case, Woody Allen is already filthy rich (deservedly), so I doubt he gives a toss.
- azgolfer 17y ago
  It's up to Mr. Allen to decide if he wants to give away his work for promotion and his wealth doesn't make stealing from him right.
  - swombat 17y ago
    It certainly is, from a legal standpoint. From a moral standpoint, I think the fact that the story was written in 1975, 34 years ago, makes it really a borderline case whether Woody Allen should still have exclusivity over the story he published and profited from for 30+ years. Even going by the 2x14 years principle, he's out. Imho, the world would be a better place if there was a deadline of about 30 years on the exclusivity of reprinting rights.
    - lucumo 17y ago
      The problem with morals is that they are different from person to person. If you want to have a debate on copyright law, I'm perfectly happy to have it, but I don't think anyone should rewrite copyright law based only on their own morals. After all, that's why laws are created, to unify all morals and all interests in a country. In any case, I don't think HN should be a place to swap pirated stories (or movies, music, etc.). Especially not so when they are as terrible and uninteresting as this one.

sielskr 17y ago

Since I like smart women, the story got me a little excited :)

chrischen 17y ago

At first I was like , this looks long, better go watch some tv. But before I knew it I had already finished it 'cause it was so interesting. That was so I intellectually stimulating my mind almost exploded!

blhack 17y ago

The story seems very similar in theme to this one: http://www.viruscomix.com/page473.html http://www.viruscomix.com/page473.html