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Volvo have stopped selling manual transmission ("stick") cars in North America. They have lost me as a customer.

by GnarfGnarf 12y ago

ape4 12y ago
If you dislike automatic transition I guess you'll not like self driving cars.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  I was quite a fan of the manual transmission, but I got an automatic car for the first time now (Mercedes A-class), and it's just so good at shifting that I never even consider it any more. I think of the transmission as another part of the driving experience to automate away now, like turning lights and parking brakes on and off.
  - venomsnake 12y ago
    There is difference with automatic gearbox (planetary gearbox) and DCT gearbox which is much closer to the manual IIRC.
  - squidsoup 12y ago
    Unfortunately you'll also be automating away an element of driving that many people consider fun.
    - StavrosK 12y ago
      It still has paddles, so you can manually shift. Sure, if you don't like it, it takes away the element of fun, but a few minutes of fun isn't worth the hours of manual-shifting drudgery during rush-hour traffic for me.
  - throwaway7767 12y ago
    How would you automate turning lights? They are pretty useless if they only fire when the car is already turning. The whole point of them is to give a warning prior to turning.
    - StavrosK 12y ago
      Sorry, it was "turning lights (on and off)", I meant the headlights.
- nmcfarl 12y ago
  It’s quite possible that’s true of many people. But I like manual transmissions as they force me to pay attention to the act of driving quite frequently. Without that constant reminder, I have a tendency to zone out and go on autopilot myself, which is of course dangerous. Manual transmissions are my hack to attack this issue - but I’d love to have a self driving car where I was reasonably confident that my zoning out would not be a safety hazard. (As a manual transmission isn’t a great hack, and I live in an urban area, I mainly take the bus, which solves the "zoned out problem" completely.)
  - ghaff 12y ago
    I suspect that "zoning out" will be a big question as these technologies are brought to market albeit in a different way than you describe. Many of the things being worked on will likely be useful and potentially available as assistive systems well before they could be delivered as part of a complete autonomous system. However, there will almost certainly come a point when you can provide too much of certain kinds of assistance unless you're prepared to actually turn over full control to the system. You can't have a system that doesn't need a person to do anything 99% of the time but requires that same person to take over control at a moment's notice to deal with some situation that the computer doesn't know how to handle or, indeed, didn't even recognize.
McGuffin 12y ago
Maybe if you'd bought a lot more Volvos, they still would've had a market for that option.
- chiph 12y ago
  With draconian CAFE requirements coming (49 mpg average [1][2] for vehicles the size of a Honda Fit), manufacturers are really ramping up their efforts to be compliant. Automatic transmissions now can deliver 1-2 better mpg than a manual, plus sometimes faster shift times. You're also seeing a lot more CVT transmissions vs. conventional planetary gear ones these days because they typically deliver 2+ mpg better economy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE#Agreed_standards_by_model_year.2C_2011-2025 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE#Agreed_standards_by_model_... [2] I'm not saying the days of the V8 are over (like in Mad Max 2 -- "The last of the V8 Interceptors. A piece of history.") .. but if you want one, you might want to start thinking about buying one to keep.
  - refurb 12y ago
    That's the first time I've heard of automatic transmissions giving better mileage than manuals. I always thought the drive train loses on an automatic transmission (mainly the torque converter) was the issue? Has that changed?
    - chiph 12y ago
      Depends on the design, YMMV, etc. etc. But Consumer Reports found that the Ford Fiesta and Mazda 3 returned 1 mpg better when specced with an automatic. http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/save-gas-and-money-with-a-manual-transmission/index.htm http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/save-gas-and-money-wi... If you choose the CVT in the Nissan Versa, you'll get 5mpg better economy over either the manual or the automatic choices. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-s...
jotm 12y ago
How is it possibly better than automatic? I've driven a manual Scania, it's a serious pain in the ass - automatic transmissions are a godsend for trucks...
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Some people like driving rather than seeing it as a means to an end. I got to really enjoy gearing on a motorcycle.
- i80and 12y ago
  It really depends on the person and the vehicle. I learned to drive stick some years after I started driving, and I just adore the experience to the point where I will not buy an automatic car. Maybe in the future. But not now. That said, trucks and passenger vehicles with rubbery shifter bushings might be a different story. There's a lot of shifter and clutch variation out there.

Volvo have stopped selling manual transmission ("stick") cars in North America. They have lost me as a customer.

ape4 12y ago

If you dislike automatic transition I guess you'll not like self driving cars.

StavrosK 12y ago
I was quite a fan of the manual transmission, but I got an automatic car for the first time now (Mercedes A-class), and it's just so good at shifting that I never even consider it any more. I think of the transmission as another part of the driving experience to automate away now, like turning lights and parking brakes on and off.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  There is difference with automatic gearbox (planetary gearbox) and DCT gearbox which is much closer to the manual IIRC.
- squidsoup 12y ago
  Unfortunately you'll also be automating away an element of driving that many people consider fun.
  - StavrosK 12y ago
    It still has paddles, so you can manually shift. Sure, if you don't like it, it takes away the element of fun, but a few minutes of fun isn't worth the hours of manual-shifting drudgery during rush-hour traffic for me.
- throwaway7767 12y ago
  How would you automate turning lights? They are pretty useless if they only fire when the car is already turning. The whole point of them is to give a warning prior to turning.
  - StavrosK 12y ago
    Sorry, it was "turning lights (on and off)", I meant the headlights.
nmcfarl 12y ago
It’s quite possible that’s true of many people. But I like manual transmissions as they force me to pay attention to the act of driving quite frequently. Without that constant reminder, I have a tendency to zone out and go on autopilot myself, which is of course dangerous. Manual transmissions are my hack to attack this issue - but I’d love to have a self driving car where I was reasonably confident that my zoning out would not be a safety hazard. (As a manual transmission isn’t a great hack, and I live in an urban area, I mainly take the bus, which solves the "zoned out problem" completely.)
- ghaff 12y ago
  I suspect that "zoning out" will be a big question as these technologies are brought to market albeit in a different way than you describe. Many of the things being worked on will likely be useful and potentially available as assistive systems well before they could be delivered as part of a complete autonomous system. However, there will almost certainly come a point when you can provide too much of certain kinds of assistance unless you're prepared to actually turn over full control to the system. You can't have a system that doesn't need a person to do anything 99% of the time but requires that same person to take over control at a moment's notice to deal with some situation that the computer doesn't know how to handle or, indeed, didn't even recognize.

McGuffin 12y ago

Maybe if you'd bought a lot more Volvos, they still would've had a market for that option.

chiph 12y ago
With draconian CAFE requirements coming (49 mpg average [1][2] for vehicles the size of a Honda Fit), manufacturers are really ramping up their efforts to be compliant. Automatic transmissions now can deliver 1-2 better mpg than a manual, plus sometimes faster shift times. You're also seeing a lot more CVT transmissions vs. conventional planetary gear ones these days because they typically deliver 2+ mpg better economy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE#Agreed_standards_by_model_year.2C_2011-2025 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE#Agreed_standards_by_model_... [2] I'm not saying the days of the V8 are over (like in Mad Max 2 -- "The last of the V8 Interceptors. A piece of history.") .. but if you want one, you might want to start thinking about buying one to keep.
- refurb 12y ago
  That's the first time I've heard of automatic transmissions giving better mileage than manuals. I always thought the drive train loses on an automatic transmission (mainly the torque converter) was the issue? Has that changed?
  - chiph 12y ago
    Depends on the design, YMMV, etc. etc. But Consumer Reports found that the Ford Fiesta and Mazda 3 returned 1 mpg better when specced with an automatic. http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/save-gas-and-money-with-a-manual-transmission/index.htm http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/save-gas-and-money-wi... If you choose the CVT in the Nissan Versa, you'll get 5mpg better economy over either the manual or the automatic choices. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-s...

jotm 12y ago

How is it possibly better than automatic? I've driven a manual Scania, it's a serious pain in the ass - automatic transmissions are a godsend for trucks...

anigbrowl 12y ago
Some people like driving rather than seeing it as a means to an end. I got to really enjoy gearing on a motorcycle.
i80and 12y ago
It really depends on the person and the vehicle. I learned to drive stick some years after I started driving, and I just adore the experience to the point where I will not buy an automatic car. Maybe in the future. But not now. That said, trucks and passenger vehicles with rubbery shifter bushings might be a different story. There's a lot of shifter and clutch variation out there.